Dr Rupy: Uma, I would love to know how you would design a day that is geared towards fantastic mental health, clarity, energy, from a food and a lifestyle perspective, using all your knowledge and what you've put in your in your two books.
Dr Uma Naidoo: Thanks Rupy, I think that's a great question. Starting off, you know, we're in such a beautiful space that I think it makes me think when we get up in the morning, one of the things to do is really to spend at least ten minutes outdoors if you can, or build it into your day. Firstly, the sunlight reaching our eyes is so important to help our circadian rhythm. I was just sharing with you my jet lag. And it's certainly something that helps our circadian rhythm. So that if you can build it into some part of your day. And none of this is, you know, I'm never an all or none person. So if you can build these things in, these I think are habits that have helped me. I'm most certainly not perfect, but these are these are the guidances I give my friends and family and my my clients. Another thing when we get up is drinking a glass of water because our body is dehydrated, irrespective of how well hydrated we were the day before, just our body is naturally dehydrated. Drinking a glass of cool water is always great. I might add a piece of lemon in it. I might have it slightly warm sometimes depending on the weather. And I think before, I really had to work hard to not go to my laptop or go to my phone. I've had to work hard to not do that.
Dr Rupy: I just want to focus on the lemon water and the warm lemon water because that's definitely something that I've heard from my parents, but this you specifically talked about the lemon and I'm assuming it might be to do with the acidity and the digestive system.
Dr Uma Naidoo: Acidity, digestive system. You know, some people do things like have a little shot of apple cider vinegar. You know, people talk about this in different scientific ways, but I I really learned it from my grandmother to just always have, you know, lemon in warm if it's if it's freezing cold in New York and Boston, I'll have it warmer. And you know, people also talk about having enough electrolytes. And that's a lot of the conversation going on recently. So once in a, you know, I do get the little electrolyte packets for working out and stuff, but also just a sprinkle of Himalayan salt can sometimes help just to build in, build your electrolytes back in through your salt. And it's not, we're not saying an excessive amount of salt, we're just saying a sprinkle. But all of those, you know, for example with lemon, the lemon rind has, and with citrus, the lemon rind is rich in antioxidants. So even, you know, eating a little bit of that or taking a bite of that is good. But that's just one habit and before reaching out to my phone or my laptop, which are immediate distractions, you know, I try my best to, I've meditated since I was a child, so even if I can get in 10 to 15 minutes in the morning, sometimes it's just a mindfulness practice, sometimes it's a form of meditation, but a way that just kind of clears my mind for the day. Doesn't always work, sometimes I'm too busy, but then I try to do it at another point in the day. And sometimes I do what I call both exercise snacks and and like mindfulness snacks. And what I mean by that is I don't always have a full hour at a certain point, but I do a component of it and I do it a few times either in the day or during the week. And you know, we spoke earlier about being intuitive and intuitive eating is something I write about in Calm Your Mind With Food because it's something I've practiced only because I wake up hungry on some days and sometimes I don't. So I lean into that. And rather than have a hard and fast fixed rule for myself and also because I travel a lot, if I get up hungry, I'll have a nice breakfast and if I don't, I'll have it later.
Dr Rupy: Okay, so you've got to, from what I'm hearing is you've got to build in flexibility into your routine. You can't be as rigid as every day I'm going to have my overnight oats with protein or I'm going to have my omelette or I'm going to have my leftovers at a specific amount of time in the morning. You've got to be intuitive to how you're feeling in that moment.
Dr Uma Naidoo: I think that if you're using intuitive eating, because so you're right about me, you described sort of how I lead with my day. But with some people, they find that the structure of a schedule works. And if they don't have that, all hell breaks loose and they can't manage and they get thrown off. So if it works for you, I'm sort of, I've been thinking to myself, how do I describe it the best? And one phrase I've come up with is, you know, you do you with Dr Uma, which is I'm going to help you, help to guide you with the stuff you do, but tweak the foods, the method, build in mindfulness, build in outdoor time, build in those lifestyle factors that you may not be paying attention to or realise are important. And the reason is that I want to lean into what you're doing rather than be split the way that the media teaches us to be or has trained us to be, which is eat this, not that. Or do this, don't do that. And I think that's where intuitive eating has worked for me and some of my patients fast and they start eating at 11 and then they finish eating by seven or they have different windows. But I think it's important to do what works for your body. And that's one of the principles I've talked about in nutritional psychiatry, which is really body intelligence.
Dr Rupy: When you're having that first meal, this is great because this is sounding like my morning routine, so I feel like I'm sort of ticking all the boxes in my head right now. When you're eating that first meal, if you've chosen to eat in the morning, what are the sort of non-negotiables that you want to have on your plate or in your bowl to ensure it's going to be supporting mental health, calm, reducing anxiety, reducing and improving your your brain health?
Dr Uma Naidoo: For me, my go-to choices are things that are satiating, things that are easy because I'm often on the go, and things that I can make ahead. But with enough protein, especially individuals who are vegetarian or plant-based, just building that protein becomes important. So for me, it's things that I can make ahead like a basil seed or chia seed pudding with a couple of ingredients. I make a few and because they're so, because chia seeds are so high in fibre and protein, a small amount goes a long way. So I don't need a massive jar, but I have a small one made and then I add my berries or my nuts, whatever my toppings are that can change it up a little bit for me. That to me is one of the easiest things to do. The other other favourite is a recipe that I created for this book, my second book, which is a chickpea omelette. So you can make a chickpea scramble if you can't get it to sit like an omelette. But you can, but it's a great source of, it's a great way to add your vegetables in, it's a great way to add spices in. Because I don't know about you, but I grew up eating savoury breakfast. The first time I met a Pop-Tart was when I moved to Boston to study. And all hell, you know, and it's like you suddenly realise what what is this, you know? And then it tastes good and you sort of get hooked on these on on eating in a way that you were never used to eating. So I really had to back in the day when I first moved, I had to reset because these are not the best choices. So having eaten savoury breakfast, a chickpea omelette is great.
Dr Rupy: I grew up eating savoury breakfast and I remember the first time my mum let me have a Pop-Tart for breakfast. It's because I've been watching Nickelodeon, which is this, yeah, like kids show channel. It just came over to the UK. We had cable TV. They were talking about Pop-Tarts. I was like, what is this Pop-Tart? And they're raving about it. And then I can't remember where we got it from. I think it might have been from Costco that recently opened up in the UK at this time. This is going back like 30 years now. And I remember getting Pop-Tarts and trying it for the first time and that sugar hit was addictive. Even as a kid, it was like, this is amazing. Like, I want to have this every day.
Dr Uma Naidoo: Exactly. And then, you know, on that note, I have to have to share with you that recently the Daily Mail exposed this conversation, let's just say, between individuals who are guiding the US food guidelines, who with an abundance of, I don't know what to call it, shared that they feel ultra-processed foods don't lead to obesity and that the studies were biased. Wow. And I, you know, I think back to my my short run with Pop-Tarts and I'm like, you know, this is there's just something so wrong about all of this. But I was, I was, you know, I want to dig deeper into it and find out more. This just came out about a week ago within the past week. But I think this comes back to some of the issues in the US that I speak about all the time, which is that people are given Pop-Tarts or they see Pop-Tarts on television. That's a great example, or kids see it and we are not, the the ads, the advertising and the food marketing and the food companies are pushing the foods that are the cheapest, that are the least healthy and that people want to eat. But they want to eat it because they don't know or don't realise that healthy whole foods can be delicious. And that's something you and I talk about all the time. So I just feel there's a little bit of the inverse going on right now.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah. I I definitely see that. I think I know the article that you're talking about and there's there's clearly some sort of manipulation going on. I mean, I'm quite happy to just call it out. In terms of the the breakfast attributes, so protein is really important. Chickpea omelette, I think is a great idea because you're getting the fibre. And I'm assuming that's just like a normal egg omelette with like.
Dr Uma Naidoo: Exactly, with what I did is I added spinach in it. The recipe is in the book. And you can add in any veggies. You can use your leftover veggies from dinner the night before. But you know, load it up because it's going to be more satiating. And then say you make a big one and it ends up more like a scramble, which happens if you don't have the time to cook it gently and and let it sit in the pan and stuff like that. That's fine. You know, you can take half for lunch the next day, put it in the fridge. It's it's a good wholesome meal.
Dr Rupy: Okay, great. So you've got your decent breakfast, your glucose levels are nice and steady, you're not going to have any dips in the morning. What what else is going to be a part of that lifestyle?
Dr Uma Naidoo: Yes, so thanks for pointing that out because the whole reason to have that satiating breakfast is exactly that. And then I have, I'll have snacks that I carry or have in the fridge during the day. A little bit of cottage cheese, if I don't have that for breakfast. Great source of, certainly whole milk and certainly grass-fed. And then a little portion of that because again, it's satiating and I have a homemade granola that I call a brain food granola that again, I developed for this book so that I can control how how much of sweetness I have in it. And so I have that on hand as a snack if I don't have it for breakfast. And then I have nuts or berries on hand. So if I'm like you working from home, Rupy, I'll have those things in the fridge. And then for lunch, I often like a really big hearty salad because I can put anything I want in it. I can use any greens I have, chop up the vegetables I have, make my own little vinaigrette. It's so easy and you can prep it ahead. You just don't add your dressing. And I can add, if I haven't had chickpeas for breakfast, I can add, you know, legumes, a piece of grilled tofu. And when I grill the tofu, I add spices to it so it's flavourful. And so, or I chop it up and I put it in the air fryer. And so that can be something added to the salad. And then in the evening, I'll go for, you know, a meal that I try my best to eat earlier. It doesn't always work because sometimes I'm working late, travelling, and that kind of stuff. But I'll do things like the cauliflower steak with, you know, like a tikka masala. And I'll either air fry it or cook it on the pan, lots and lots of extra veggies around that. And you know, if I haven't had a salad for lunch, I'll have a salad on the side. So I'm trying to get in as many colours into my day of vegetables, different flavours from my spices, adding as many different greens and different types of vegetables or some berries into my day because that's building up the biodiversity for my gut, for my brain. And it's a challenge because I'm I'm thinking to myself when I go to the farmer's market or the the supermarket, like how many different, you know, I'm actually thinking to myself, how can I challenge myself with these different colours? The other thing that I do to make my food prep easier is buy frozen when I when I need to. Because when I don't have time to clean the whole head of cauliflower, frozen veg vegetables and berries in the US are flash frozen, so they're frozen at their peak. And so it's a great option. Keep them in my freezer in case I arrive and I don't haven't had a chance to do food shopping.
Dr Rupy: In terms of, you mentioned the brain food granola, which sounds delicious. What makes it brain friendly? What what are the nutrients specifically in the ingredients that are supporting brain health?
Dr Uma Naidoo: Firstly, it's low sugar. So the fact that you're not adding a ton of table sugar, you know, white cane sugar to it is just better for your brain, better for your gut, better for your overall health, better for your metabolism. But then the the fibre from the nuts and seeds that I add and the unsweetened coconut flakes all are just rich in antioxidants. And then the the nuts and seeds have short-chain omegas. So that's a way to build up your brain foods in a different way. And then I think if I'm not mistaken, I have used some avocado oil, a very little bit so that it has some additional fat to help it cook. And then my my choice of way to sweeten is just a little bit of honey because honey has other benefits. But adding those in, you know, the way I think about brain food, it's almost like you for want of a better word, you layer each meal. So as many of them as you can get into a meal, they are going to help your gut health, they're going to lower inflammation, they're rich in antioxidants. So they're going to hit some high points that are building up towards that healthier meal. Because there's no perfect meal. Because the perfect meal gets into the divisiveness of, you know, should I eat this? Should I exclude meat entirely? Should I only eat red meat? And I think that that kind of culture, we tend to encourage in the US and I don't agree with it. You know, I'm I'm always calling out the fact that that's what confuses people about not being sure what to eat next or what the next superfood is, rather than how about just eating healthy whole foods in moderation and enjoying something that you like. So you may like steak or someone else may like fish, someone else may eat tofu, but there's a way to do it that can make those brain healthy foods.
Dr Rupy: And you mentioned protein at the start of your sort of day of eating, let's say. How important is protein in general to disperse over that over over your your eating pattern and and how does that equate to to mental well-being and and brain health as well?
Dr Uma Naidoo: So one of the things I did in Calm Your Mind With Food is I broke down macros, micros, and that that sort of chapter so that it it was more understandable for people because we get confused with these terms. Protein is certainly important. For for me, it's important to have a little bit at every meal and if I can in my snacks. It's hard for people to get a large amount of protein, but I think that that's where where building the right protein smoothie can help because you have a, you know, clean protein powder, then you add in things that can up the protein amount. I think it's super important because A, it's satiating, it's helping build your muscle in the right way, it's helping many of the different brain functions, your neurotransmitters. So it's important to have those those proteins in your meal. So adding them in, but do it in a way that's comfortable. Like, you know, I'm not saying have your steak at breakfast, but have a steak if that's what what's your choice, either at lunch or dinner and get in your protein. If it's tofu, make sure you're adding in nuts, seeds and other sources of protein to build it up. Maybe throw in a protein smoothie somewhere in your day because you might need that to get to a good protein level. And I think that does, there are guidances on that, but I think it varies for each person too.
Dr Rupy: Yeah. And do you, are there specific plant-based sources that are good in sources of protein that you you lean on?
Dr Uma Naidoo: Yes. So not so people are usually concerned about legumes and lentils because of the sort of the carbohydrate that the carbohydrates that they bring, but they're rich in fibre. So it doesn't balance off entirely, but it's a good option because you're still getting fibre and other nutrients with it. Tofu is a great source of protein. I always go for organic non-GMO forms. Actual fresh edamame or frozen edamame is another great choice. Other sources of protein that people often overlook are things like cottage cheese, just plain. Not the not the Americanized version with tons of fruit and sugar and high fructose corn syrup. You know, really just plain and then build your own flavours into it. Those are some go-tos. Certainly, certainly that I and a clean protein powder always have that on hand.
Dr Rupy: What are the attributes of a good protein powder? This is something I'm getting asked about a lot actually. I tend to stay clear of of whey protein and dairy-based proteins because there's there's quite a mixture. Although there are some good quality ones out there, but I find it harder to decipher exactly which one's going to be a decent one. And I I sort of I I sort of make my own protein smoothies and using nuts and peanut butter. But are there powders that you you like?
Dr Uma Naidoo: So one of two ways. So I think we're similar in that way. I might I might build it with nuts, seeds, and chunk up the amount of protein I'm getting from that. Another trick for either type that you do, whether you use a protein powder or not, is a recipe that I created for this book, which is from hemp seeds. What I found is because of my schedule, if I buy, and now there's a little bit of certainly we're having some questions in the US about what we're putting in plain almond milk and stuff like that and how processed it is. So I was thinking, you know, instead of throwing out stuff, which I I hate to waste food because I'm not home, I just use a certain amount of hemp seeds and and put those either make the hemp milk and keep it in the fridge, small batches at a time, or I add the hemp seeds and water to my smoothie and that makes it creamy. So and plus you're getting your short-chain omegas and your fibre. So this is a good way to do it. And then if I if I am using a protein powder, pea protein is an option. Um, you know, if depending on what you consume, a clean type of paleo protein is is appropriate. When I say clean, just, you know, how they're sourcing it, who's making it, what are they adding? Another thing to pay attention to is what are they adding to sweeten it? Um, you know, are they adding cane sugar or are they adding a little bit of, you know, a small bit of say stevia or erythritol, a small amount of sweetener or monk fruit. These are these are ones that if you're using a small amount, I'm not asking you to eat it every day or put it in your tea and your coffee and everything. It does provide that because most of the protein powders have, certainly the ones with the American palate have to be sweet. Yeah, yeah. I've noticed that. Yeah. Exactly, they always have to be sweet. So it's more like how can how can I guide people around if you're looking for it and you see that a little amount is okay. I just don't want you putting the same sweet in every single thing because then you're having too much of it.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, I I I really can tell the difference between the American palate and the UK palate. I mean, now I get it closer together, but we've tried some American protein powders, some American green drinks and supplement powders. They put a ton of sweetness in it and it's just sickly sweet. It's very sweet. I can't, I don't know how people tolerate the the level of sweet.
Dr Uma Naidoo: Well, it starts with how our food system is, which is that they add sugar to everything. It's not just Pop-Tarts. It's fast food, French fries, something we spoke about this before. It's sugar is in is in so much of what we eat that, um, even in ways that it's, you know, there are 262 other names now for sugar on food. There's a repository on the names for sugar used on food labels in the US. So it's I would say it's in everything. And that's why if I say frozen vegetables, look to see it's cauliflower. Because there's a sauce or a syrup or something else that becomes a problem.
Dr Rupy: So the protein powder that I make myself, we've got on the app, it's for free actually, if folks want to download it. I put hemp seeds in because I think hemp seeds is one of those undercover protein sources that people don't realise, like how good it is. And it's creamy when you add water to it. It becomes like it really turns into milk. And people got to look out for the shelled hemp seeds because you can get hemp seeds in its full form, which is a lot harder. And then you might sometimes you have to exactly, and sometimes it depends on what you use because you have to strain it if it's too, if there's some residue in it. Residues exactly, yeah. Um, so I use shelled hemp seeds, raw cacao, because again, that's another really good protein source. That's a great, great, great nutrient. Yeah, yeah. Uh, with there's flavonols and and great brain health benefits. And then I'll use like a neutral milk, it could be dairy milk, it could be water in certain cases, peanut butter. And I use a sweetener. I use um, either a little bit of honey or a little bit of maple syrup. And the way I.
Dr Uma Naidoo: And I use honey.
Dr Rupy: Yeah. And I I I would just ask you about the sweetness actually because there's a lot of debate, I think, over healthy sweeteners. Um, uh, you know, aside from using just the raw sugar in its appropriate amount, so a teaspoon here or whatever it might be, and and cognizant of the fact that honey and brown sugar and white sugar pretty much have the same biological effects when you consume them. Um, what are the sweeteners that you think are sort of on the okay green list versus the ones that you have concerns about that we should be avoiding if we do see on a on a label?
Dr Uma Naidoo: So the ones that I'm most concerned about are the things that in the US are in diet sodas and foods that are labelled as, I wouldn't say the newer functional foods and I'll tell you why in a second, but um, those artificial sweeteners that are on our diet sodas and diet drinks of any kind, it could be a diet tea, for example, are usually problematic. The saccharin, the sucralose, a lot of those that are the, I would, I'm going to say the older, slightly older sweeteners. The ones that I am okay with, but there are a few caveats. For example, stevia is natural, it's from a plant. It is still processed. Sure. It also, and I shared this in my first book called This Is Your Brain on Food and here it's called The Food Mood Connection, that stevia unfortunately drives anxiety. So if you are using stevia in say your smoothie and you you've read that it's natural, yes, it is. It is also processed. Unfortunately, it drove, studies have shown that it can worsen anxiety. So if you are an anxious person, maybe that's not the best sweetener for you. Um, the other ones in moderation that I think are, I'm okay with, and when I say moderation, a tiny bit, um, in say a smoothie or something that you're making and not multiple times a day, a tiny bit of erythritol or a tiny bit of monk fruit. I think that we have to give people some solutions. And a newer one is allulose. And so far the studies on allulose have been good. And I have to share with you, Rupy, that, you know, I've become a little bit more flexible in my opinion on artificial sweeteners as I did more clinical work and research. The the, you know, I have to guide my patients in mental health around what their condition is. So with anxiety, I'm going to ask them to step back from stevia and use something else. But here's the thing I've mentioned a few times that, you know, as Americans, there's a very sweet palate. So people, you're unlikely to be able to make a food even at a restaurant without, you know, paying attention to what the dessert is or whatever it is, because that is what the population is used to. What I think health influencers and doctors and and individuals like us can do is help guide people to using less of it, using it in moderation and only when you need to. So if you're a tea drinker and you have six cups of tea a day, like a lavender tea or whatever, I I can't justify that you put any one of those sweeteners I mentioned every single time. I want you to practice, you know, like I guide my patients towards extra dark natural chocolate to having less of it. But say you're making a smoothie and you're doing, you're not adding say an almond butter or cashew butter or something like that to sweeten it or to make it creamy, you know, a little bit is okay. But I just don't want you to rely on it at all because that's when it can be disruptive to your gut, build up in your body and that type of thing.
Dr Rupy: Absolutely. Everything has a dose.
Dr Uma Naidoo: Everything, everything has a sort of dose. And and my go-to is always a little a touch of honey. And I I do mean a touch. Um, because to your point, you know, our our food in the US is so sweetened that when people buy the products or eat the food, they can taste it. But if you train your palate to eat extra dark natural chocolate, to rely on things like berries for sweetness, um, and you will even find you use less and less honey over time because your body gets used to it.
Dr Rupy: Yeah. Is there a particular type of honey that you prefer?
Dr Uma Naidoo: I like, it's it's more pricey, but I love manuka honey. But you know, a wild honey or a honey that you can get locally sourced or something like that, that's organic is is probably a good.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah. We got really into honey here because we did a whole episode on honey and the proposed benefits of honey and the different flavours you can get out of honey. It's a whole world.
Dr Uma Naidoo: It's a whole, there's a whole world of honey out there. But I just go for something simple that I can, you know, pop in the granola or something that it's there because it has these other health benefits. To me, although everything, you know, it's maple syrup, it all breaks down to sugar. It's just what what is the extra, that layer of benefit I can get from anything I add.
Dr Rupy: Totally. I want to talk about the broader picture of mental well-being, but I think I want to drill down into GABA as a neurotransmitter because that's something that you've spent a bit more time talking about in your books, which is distinct from what people sort of naturally associate with the health, mental well-being and food conversation, serotonin and dopamine. What is GABA first off and what role does that play in terms of the intersection between food and and mental health?
Dr Uma Naidoo: Thanks for that question because I think it's sort of a little bit ignored in terms of mental well-being, although a lot of the medications designed do target GABA. But since since really we are food first people and we're trying to help individuals find solutions through food, where I think GABA is relevant is it's very helpful to know that it's a neurotransmitter and it helps anxiety. It is related to the gut microbiome. So there are parts of the brain where GABA is more effective, like the amygdala, which is sort of a hotbed for anxiety. And making sure you have it in your diet from different sources is important. What I've started to do with the evolution of my books is talk to people about where you can get food sources of different neurotransmitters. And it turns out that with GABA, there's a population of microbes, Bifidobacterium adolescentis, that when they, there's anything that you're doing that is causing them, their production and their action to be impacted, they produce less GABA and you may experience more anxiety. So we are now understanding from the work of the microbiome, which I think is more and more powerful as we dive deeper into it, that when you can connect different microbial species to actual impact, like Lactobacillus rhamnosus also helps lower anxiety, it becomes more powerful as to where we can obtain these and how we can use these foods. But then you also get GABA in foods. You can get foods like peas, spinach, bitter orange, and eggplant.
Dr Rupy: We've got some peas here. So just like regular frozen peas, this this will.
Dr Uma Naidoo: There there's GABA in in in peas. And that's the reason we talked about we're going to talk about an eggplant recipe. So I think that.
Dr Rupy: And that's an aubergine here. You call it eggplant, we call it aubergine.
Dr Uma Naidoo: It's all the same, the same one. And courgettes as well have some GABA. So there's a list of foods.
Dr Rupy: This is pretending to be a courgette.
Dr Uma Naidoo: That's exactly, that's our acting, our cucumber acting as a courgette today that we call zucchini. So it's just helpful to know that it's in these different food components. And again, it comes back to that, just like we layer flavours, think about layering your brain foods, you know, every single thing we've talked about, adding multiple nutrients that are whole foods that you can identify as a whole food versus a Pop-Tart, that actually adds to your brain benefits. And it turns out that eggplant has anti-anxiety benefits.
Dr Rupy: So in terms of, because most people look at an eggplant and we're like, oh, it's just mainly water and you know, and most people are scared about eggplants these days because it's part of the nightshade family. And some people don't eat them. And some people don't eat them and you know, some people are sensitive, I guess, but you know, it's pretty unassuming as a vegetable. But now that I know that this has GABA in it, I mean, how much would you need to consume to have a over a period of time to have a meaningful impact on on your mental well-being?
Dr Uma Naidoo: Right. I think that that's where, so I'll tell you about the research behind it, but but that's where we don't know the exact amount in terms of food doses. But how I think about it is the following. Eggplant is not a high-calorie food. We are going to lay it with some delicious spices and cook it in a healthy way. And if your side, one of your side dishes is half an eggplant and you are eating it a few times a week because you're building in those colours and textures of food and fruit and vegetables, that's a good idea because you are again layering your brain foods into your week. The study that looked at an anti-anxiety effect found that there is a component of, I guess it was the choline ester that they broke, they they broke it down. They used eggplant, they turned it into a powder and they found that in the study in humans, it helped lower blood pressure and it helped perceived stress. And they were using, I think they broke it down to a certain amount of acetylcholine from the choline esters and they dosed people. It was a very, it wasn't a large amount. I don't know the, don't recall the exact amount off the top of my head, but they noticed that by taking that dose every day, it helped people. So when we think about food, what you want to be able to do is add these foods in several times a week. But if you're not eating eggplant that day, make sure there's some peas or some courgettes or have a, you know, an orange or something like that.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, because orange is another one of these foods that you mentioned, right?
Dr Uma Naidoo: Exactly. So, you know, the other cool thing about orange that I have to tell you related to anxiety is my one of my favourite foods is extra dark natural chocolate. And I know you all use a lot of it in here. But it turns out it's the highest source of plant-based heme, which we need. Really? I didn't know that. Iron. Plant-based iron. Because we usually get our iron from meat, which has the heme iron. But you need vitamin C for the act for for it to be converted. And so extra dark natural chocolate, I learned in culinary school, goes well with oranges, but I never knew there was a scientific mechanism behind it. So I always say, you know, have those pieces of extra dark chocolate, have a clementine, an orange, a mandarin, something like that that helps along that interaction because that way, you know, 30% of the world, according to the World Health Organization is iron deficient, especially women and children. And that drives anxiety. Low low iron drives anxiety. So as well as other things, but since we since we're here to talk about mental health, so having that, you know, as a little go-to becomes important to build up your iron sources, especially if say you don't consume red meats or something like that.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's that saying in culinary school, you know, what grows together goes together. And I wonder if there is like some, uh, some some wisdom behind what flavours well together actually is good for your health as well. Like orange and chocolate. I mean, that's one of my favourite combinations.
Dr Uma Naidoo: I thought it was the most delicious thing when we did these recipes. And I didn't know until I dove deeper into the science that actually there's this mechanism that helps our bodies, you know. So when you learn these little things, I just feel the more of them we can do in our week or our day, our ideal day is is good.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah. I always look to the example of Chinese five spice as the best sort of healthful collection of spices together because it's got clove, it's got cinnamon, it's just all these star anise. It's got all these incredibly high antioxidant levels of of polyphenols and it just goes so wonderfully well with everything.
Dr Uma Naidoo: It does. It goes with so many things. It it it it really does.
Dr Rupy: I had aubergine last night. I didn't realise we were cooking with aubergine today, but I had aubergine last night and I did like a five spice, uh, quartered, um, I did like a little cubes of aubergine and then just stir-fried that in a pan with some olive oil. And the five spice and aubergine goes really well.
Dr Uma Naidoo: Yeah, because aubergine takes on a lot of flavour.
Dr Rupy: It takes on flavour. This is the huge advantage. It's kind of not with much flavour, but you it absorbs flavour so well.
Dr Uma Naidoo: Yeah, that's incredible. I love it. And in terms of food creating better mental health, and and when I say mental health, you know, I'm really using mental health in a in a broad sense because it's encompassing of everything from depression, OCD, low-grade anxiety, schizophrenia. What what are what are the mechanisms behind how food can help with uh, with mental well-being?
Dr Uma Naidoo: So this is slightly, slightly longer answer. My first book, This Is Your Brain on Food, also the The Food Mood Connection, I described the different, the major conditions in mental health and go through the mechanisms based on one very a common thread, which is the gut-brain connection. But then the foods to lean into and the foods to step back from. And for example, in the chapter on anxiety in that book, we talk about stevia a lot just to guide people and the studies. I think what's important to understand is that mental mental health is impacted by the food that we eat and it's not a connection that we've made. And that's why nutritional lifestyle and metabolic psychiatry are bringing forward this concept and I think can help more people because we know that COVID really uncovered a mental health crisis that was always there. We know that anxiety has increased by 25% since COVID. And we know that the most common condition is anxiety. But here's the thing, in overall mental health, depression and anxiety tend to run together. And the medications that target them often are similar. But food can also be an option, not in a clinical emergency, not in severe depression, psychosis or mania, or an eating disorder. Food can always help, but of course, you may need to go to the emergency room first, get an urgent appointment. But for everything else, if we're just at home, um, you know, trying to feel better, food is a very powerful source. For conditions like OCD, there are different types of natural glutamates in food, like miso, which we would ordinarily suggest to someone. Because miso is fermented, it's it's a great source of fermented food, it's great flavour, but if you have OCD, it can actually drive some of your symptoms. So even foods that are healthy, these are the little nuances we go through in the book trying to help people with different mental health conditions. Bipolar disorder and schizophrenia, because of the benefits of the ketogenic diet on metabolism, they could be used in the shorter term there if someone is on high-powered medications that are causing weight gain or they they start off overweight. So, you know, we cover all of these different components and it's important to understand the breadth of the mental health, which I appreciate you shining a light on. And then in terms of anxiety, because it is so common, I just want people to think of the word calm because, you know, when you're anxious, you don't want to hear the word anxiety. I get that. I totally get it. I've been there. So so you want to you want to think about.
Dr Rupy: That's a really good point. Yeah, I didn't realise that that particular sort of.
Dr Uma Naidoo: You know, you don't want to hear it. Exactly. So you want to you want to feel calm and the next time I visit you, Rupy, we're going to make the lavender play-doh recipe.
Dr Rupy: Absolutely. Yeah. No, I'd love to do that.
Dr Uma Naidoo: Because you can't eat it, but it's it's just like your own homemade stress ball that you can play with.
Dr Rupy: And I guess going back to that, um, the the 24 hours or the lifestyle element, you know, maybe playing with some lavender play-doh would be a nice way to end your day.
Dr Uma Naidoo: Great way to end your day, a great way to go to sleep. You know, because if you're having trouble, a lot of people will complain about insomnia, but actually they're having anxiety and they don't realise it. Because anxiety is also a condition that is masked by other things. And you start to help them improve their sleep and suddenly they, you know, or you're working with them to feel improve their anxiety and their sleep improves or vice versa. So you sometimes you just have to figure out what the way in is. But lavender play-doh is great. Then teas. The other thing we should have mentioned is just calming teas throughout the day. Um, green tea can definitely help focus. Lavender tea is not, we think of lavender and we think of a spa experience, but actually you can make it into a delicious tea.
Dr Rupy: Yeah. Well, we're going to have fun in the kitchen making one of your eggplant/aubergine recipes with tons of spices. And folks can watch us on YouTube, but yeah, phenomenal book and congratulations. This is going to be one of the the books in my repertoire that I recommend to folks for sure.
Dr Uma Naidoo: Thank you. I appreciate that very much.
