Rochelle: Today we're going to do something a little bit different. I want to try and emulate those chats that we have on the sofa where we're watching TV and then suddenly
Dr Rupy: I interrupt you.
Rochelle: Yeah, you pause whatever we're watching and you ask me something really out there like, what are your thoughts on grounding mats?
Dr Rupy: And then you tell me, you say to me, well, have you listened to my podcast? And you know the answer is always no because no offence, but I don't listen to your podcast.
Rochelle: So, this is exactly why I think an episode like this would be fun and helpful for a lot of people because we're bombarded with loads of information from lots of different sources. You don't get all your information from me unless you're asking me in front of the TV on the couch. But you're listening to loads of other pods, you're, you've got loads of information coming from social media and that's what has directed your morning routines and your evening routines, which are phenomenal.
Dr Rupy: I love my wellness morning routine.
Rochelle: Exactly. And a lot of people don't realize this, but Rochelle out-wellnesses me in so many ways.
Dr Rupy: I do and I love it. I love it.
Rochelle: However, I also convert you into certain things.
Dr Rupy: You do, actually, yeah. And so this is this is why it's also interesting because I'm naturally a sceptic. I'm not a cynic, I'm a sceptic. There's a big difference between the two. A sceptic is someone who is naturally sort of curious and is guided by the evidence. A cynic is someone who's never going to get on board. So if you say something ridiculous to me like tongue scraping,
Rochelle: Not ridiculous.
Dr Rupy: I know, we're going to get to that. So I changed my mind a lot based on your practices and actually looking into the data myself.
Rochelle: You've made me so happy.
Dr Rupy: Alright. Alright. So a lot of other people make you happy as well when the research when researchers proved me wrong. So, let's go through your routine and we can sort of, you could you're going to ask me the questions here. You're you're the interviewer today. And I want you to just be as open and as curious and just yeah, offer me, give me all the hard questions that you would.
Rochelle: Sure. So how much time do we have for my wellness routine? You know it is quite extensive and I'm constantly looking to add things to it.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah. This is the other context I want to give to folks actually. I should have said this at the start. Rochelle majors in the majors. So you do all the, you do exercise, you have a generally a very fastidious, consistent diet, you eat a lot of fibre. You know, you do all that, you sleep optimize, we're going to get to that. So these are things that you have stacked onto an already really good routine. So that's a very good, I just want to caveat that. And you're also one of those annoying people, like I am, who seems to be able to do everything. You've got a one-year-old, you work full time, you know, you show up for family events, you're always sending birthday cards, you're always reminding me to do the same, all those things, like you're just incredible. So I just want to give props to my wife there as well. She is she is absolutely amazing.
Rochelle: Oh, you're so sweet.
Dr Rupy: Okay, alright. Let me have it.
Rochelle: Okay, so my morning wellness routine. We have a 13-month-old baby at this time. So depending on what time he wakes up, we try, both of us try and wake up before him. But he's a a wild card.
Dr Rupy: He's an early riser now.
Rochelle: He's an early riser. Even in the in the dark in like London winter, he's still like waking up really early. So I normally get up at 6:00, you're normally up before me. Ideally, and this is like also like everything I say now is on a best efforts basis. Pre-Raffy, very consistent, could get it all done. And just as you have children, you need to accept that you can't do everything that you set out to do. And I think as someone who's super type A, I really struggle with that. But you can't let it throw your whole day off. So on a good day, I would start off with my red light and meditating. So I have the red light Lumi box, which you gave me, which I love. I love it so much. I also have a red light mask, but I think it's more potent in the box form. So I start off doing a meditation and we use, I use Michael James Wong's app, which is called Just Breathe.
Dr Rupy: Just Breathe. Yeah, Just Breathe. Shout out to MJ.
Rochelle: I love his, it's the only meditation app that I've liked. I think he has a very soothing voice.
Dr Rupy: Legitimately, I have to listen to this every morning as well.
Rochelle: You have to listen to Michael James Wong every morning as well. Which isn't a bad thing. He is super soothing. And do you know why I think I like it? I think I like it because there's music there. It's not just silence and I have quite an active mind, so the music just gives me something to sort of focus on. So I'll meditate whilst red light boxing as well. So I sort of hold it up in front of my face. Promote collagen, I don't know, elastin, does something healing. I'll take it.
Dr Rupy: Should we start there? Do you want to just because your morning routine is very extensive.
Rochelle: Oh yeah, should we just break down by...
Dr Rupy: Let's break it down. Yeah, yeah.
Rochelle: So my red light box.
Dr Rupy: Okay. So tell me a bit about why you started red light therapy. What were the intended benefits?
Rochelle: So someone sent it to you and I stole it. So that's how it came into my life. As I understand, and again, I'm not in the medical profession. So my knowledge is going to be sparse, but as I understand, it's very good for, it's it's red light and infrared and it's good for healing. So as a woman in her late 30s, I will take do anything to maintain a youthful look. And so I'm doing it to sort of stimulate healing and collagen production, etc. That's what I believe it does.
Dr Rupy: Okay.
Rochelle: Please tell me what it actually does.
Dr Rupy: Okay, no, so you are right. So red light therapy is often grouped under this name called photobiomodulation. I don't know if you've heard of that.
Rochelle: Yes, I have.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, you've probably heard that on a podcast, right? So, not my podcast, but what it does is it groups different wavelengths of light. So light comes in different wavelengths and it's delivering this light at very relatively low power to stimulate something called your mitochondria. So your mitochondria are colloquially known as the sort of powerhouses within your cells. They also have a strong immune function, they signal to other cells. They're actually foreign. They actually have a different DNA to our own. They're actually the sort of leftovers of bacteria that were actually not human in origin at all. And the hypothesis is that the light is absorbed by a particular element within the mitochondria and that shifts their cellular signalling to produce more energy. That's the sort of the thinking behind it or the proposed mechanism. Another thing is that it can increase something called nitric oxide, which improves something called vasodilation, which basically stimulates better blood flow to the certain to the area. And the result, again, this is the mechanism that is proposed, is that it can improve tissue healing, it can improve cell resilience, it can reduce inflammation, which is why people are using it in lots of different ways. So one of which is the way you're using it, which is skin and cosmetic appearance, stimulating things like collagen and elastin. And there are some supportive studies for wrinkles and skin texture with these particular devices. And I think you want to get a device that has a recognized wavelength that is actually within the specific criteria that these studies have actually been done on, which I think...
Rochelle: Double check that.
Dr Rupy: I'm assuming the Lumi one is because it's... It does, yeah, yeah. And we're not sponsored by Lumi or anything. I just want to put that out there, but...
Rochelle: We really like a full red light mat though. Thanks Lumi.
Dr Rupy: I'm sure someone's going to send you one after this. That's on my Christmas wish list. But that's essentially the the thinking behind it. So the the skin and wrinkles and that kind of stuff. So there might be some benefits for that. The other thing is pain relief. So when you direct this red light to certain areas, whether it's your joints or your elbows or certain areas, there might be some potential for less pain. I actually met someone at the health optimization summit that's got this device that essentially shoots red light directly at different joints like your knees. And they're actually have been doing some studies on this as well, which I think is really interesting.
Rochelle: That's super interesting because as you know, I have been using the red light red light box on Nutmeg.
Dr Rupy: Yes.
Rochelle: So Nutmeg, our queen, first child, she had some, she had a spinal injury and as I understand, small dogs are prone to knee issues and we've noticed that she has a tendency to like chew on her knee and we've been told that there she might have a little bit of knee pain. And I've been using it when we get to my PM routine, I've been using it in bed with her. She's on our bed. And I noticed that when I use it consistently, she chews less, like she stops gnawing on her knee. So I think it is having an impact to her pain.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, subjectively, a lot of people have said after using red light therapy that their joints improve, their pain improves and all that kind of stuff. In terms of like the data from human outcomes, it's really mixed and I think it really depends on how frequently it's been used and there's lots of what we call heterogeneity. So there's loads of like mixed protocols in the way in which people use these red light therapy devices. I think in the in the grander context of things, I know, as we're going to get to, you're doing loads of other things to improve skin health. You've got an incredibly colourful and rich diverse diet, you get enough protein, you're getting enough fibre, you're eating essentially an anti-inflammatory way. You're exercising, you're doing a whole bunch of other things. So if you wanted to add this to your existing routine that's doing a lot of good stuff, I don't think it's a bad thing to add to. It is sometimes really hard to distinguish what is, if you look at skin specifically, what is having an effect. What products you're using actually have an effect. It's kind of like a throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. Fingers crossed, hope for the best. Yeah, because you're doing so many other things, so it's going to be very hard from a scientific perspective to actually like draw out, oh, is it is it the collagen? Is it the red light therapy? Is it the fact that I've just got a really good diet? Is it the fact that I'm stressing less? Is it the fact that my sleep's improving? Is it genetic? All these things. But you know what? If you want to try it, great. The other thing I should mention is hair growth. So there is a potential mechanism by which hair growth could also be improved by red light therapy. I hadn't thought about that because I'm postpartum, so I have all my little baby hairs which is super annoying. Maybe I should try it on that. Well, you know, I don't know if you've seen these like hats that guys are wearing now. Have you seen that? No, I've not seen the hats, but I have seen some red light masks for your scalp. Yeah, yeah. That's really interesting. That's why. So that's... The hat, that's such a clever idea. Yeah, hats are a very clever idea. I think your mate Brian Johnson, you know... I see my mate. Yeah. As soon as you watch that documentary, you're like, I want to do all these things. I know. It's a fascinating guy. Yeah, I know, he's fascinating. I actually quite like his stuff. I mean, I think he's definitely on the the wackier side of the spectrum when it comes to... He has money and time to spare. Right? I mean that's not for like your everyday. Yeah, yeah. And to be fair, like you know... But also if that makes him happy, good for him. Yeah, totally. And I think, you know, the same in the same light, red light therapy, I don't think it's a must for everyone. I think it's, you know, a potential cell signalling tool with some theory behind it. But is it the first thing that I would start with for people looking to improve their skin? Absolutely not. I would say this is definitely down the bottom. But one thing I think that is really useful is you stack this with your meditation routine. So you're actually using the red light therapy not as like in like, I'm thinking of the time in the morning. You're not like doing 10 minutes of red light therapy and then you're doing 10 minutes of meditation. You're stacking them together. You have to have a stack. Which I think is smart. Yeah. I'm all about an efficiency. And I mean, let's be honest, a lot of the time when I start my meditation now, life post-Raphael, he's screaming in the background and that's why like that is the hardest thing to meditate peacefully with a screaming child in the background. So you sort of like do everything on a best efforts basis. But if you can combine two things, like why not?
Dr Rupy: Yeah. How are you thinking about your red light therapy now? Are you going to keep it?
Rochelle: Of course I'm going to keep it. No, I love the red light therapy. What I kind of regret, and I mean, it's not too late, but I, and I did have this thought, I should use the red light on my C-section scar. And that was my intention and then I just never got around to it because I was doing C-section massage and that became a whole thing. And actually now when I go to bed, which is probably when I would do it, I've given my red light to Nutmeg doing her spine and then like doing her little knees. So...
Dr Rupy: You know, that's a really good thought. I didn't even think about that.
Rochelle: I should have done it on my C-section scar.
Dr Rupy: Because you already do the stuff that we would do. Again, high protein diet, anti-inflammatory diet, massage.
Rochelle: Massage. I did the scar tape for a while. I need to get back into that. There's just so many things to do.
Dr Rupy: And you spoke to Anita about that. So you got that protocol and I think that...
Rochelle: And I went to see a pregnancy physio who gave me the massage routine, etc.
Dr Rupy: And then you added that. Yeah, so you could add red light therapy.
Rochelle: I should do. 2026 goals. I'll add that one to my list.
Dr Rupy: Yeah. So look, interesting biology from a biology point of view. I don't think I mean, I'm not I've I haven't added it to my routine. Would I? Maybe, you know, if I had the time and inclination to.
Rochelle: If you had a full body red light mat, you could do your meditation lying down.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, that's a good point, actually. I didn't think about that.
Rochelle: And I just think because I know some people have like the big panel box in front of them that they meditate in front of. I think I would just like the mat that I lie down on and then I could also put Nutmeg on there as well so she could get whole body red light.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah. The stuff for pets I think is really interesting, particularly from an injury improvement point of view and rehab point of view. I I actually think red light therapy for rehab is probably underutilized and I think there there could be rationale for that.
Rochelle: It's got to be also cheaper too because like otherwise like we also have for our very precious dog, a physio because she sustained a spinal injury. That's the background. Not it's not preventative physio. But she had a spinal injury and so we were having to do rehab. So we have a physio that comes to the house once a month to do her little exercise and she's doing I don't know the frequency that she's using, but she's using little red lights on her and like lasers and she I walked in the other day and you you know what I'm talking about. Nutmeg, I'd left the room, I walked back in and Nutmeg's there wearing sunglasses and Megan is like giving her laser and it was just the funniest thing. Please make sure that you share a photo of that because it's brilliant.
Dr Rupy: I'll share that. I'll definitely share that.
Rochelle: But also like that's if you could get a good quality red light, that saves you a lot on physio on physio costs.
Dr Rupy: Cool. All right, let's go to the next one, shall we?
Rochelle: So that's my red light meditation. So next up after my loaded drink, I then brush my teeth and I tongue scrape. Now this is one that you thought was ridiculous.
Dr Rupy: I thought it was absolutely ridiculous.
Rochelle: With my metal, it's not copper. I don't know if I need to switch to a copper tongue scraper because they seem to be like a separate thing. What are your views on tongue scraping?
Dr Rupy: Well, so we had Dr. Victoria Sampson on the pod who's a functional dentist and she was like, yeah, absolutely. Tongue scraping is a is a good practice. I was like, but why? She was like, first of all, don't use your toothbrush because that can be quite abrasive to the little papilla, I think she describes them as, on the on your tongue, which are your taste receptors. But there is some evidence that it supports a reduction in bad breath and the volatile compounds that can cause that. It doesn't replace obviously toothbrushing and flossing and all the rest of it, but as an add-on, it can remove that biofilm that generates those sort of malodorous compounds. So, yeah, I was wrong. I I I'm happy to admit that tongue scraping is a thing. Use a metal one. There might be some benefits for copper, I'm not too sure, but as long as it's like...
Rochelle: I think some of them are really like branded, they're like copper, that's like the USP. So I don't know, maybe I need to upgrade then.
Dr Rupy: Maybe. I mean, I think of silver as having that natural antimicrobial property. I don't know about copper, but I think this all stems from like Ayurvedic practices. So Ayurvedic tongue scrapers are known, it's been practiced for for centuries. They use a lot of copper in their other products. So there there are jugs that you can have with copper lining, like proper copper lining, and that's how you you put your water in there and it sort of, I don't know what it does, but it infuses or gets rid of some of the bacteria or something. But yeah, there there are some benefits to that.
Rochelle: That's to be debated. Or you could do like Miranda Kerr and infuse your water with crystals.
Dr Rupy: You could do that. You could. I know how I feel about my crystals. I know, yeah. I know you love Miranda Kerr. Is that where you're getting a lot of your information from?
Rochelle: I'm not going to tell you my sources. I do love Miranda Kerr and I love her products. I do.
Dr Rupy: I know. I can see a lot of them. What are they called?
Rochelle: Kora Organics. Because she had one of the first certified organic skincare lines.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, that's pretty cool.
Rochelle: From like, and she's an OG when it comes to that.
Dr Rupy: That's pretty cool. Yeah. It's like like Jessica Alba who started...
Rochelle: Yes, with Honest.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah, which are, you know, these companies wouldn't have existed and I don't think the attention on just how dirty our supply chains are when it comes to mass-produced products, without some of these brands. So, you know, respect to those. I know a lot of people like to hate on influencers, particularly in the wellness arena. That's not me. Although, I have been very sceptical of your tongue scraper, but yeah, that's fine.
Rochelle: So on the leaderboard, that's one to Rochelle.
Dr Rupy: That's definitely, oh yeah, yeah. This isn't a competition. I don't think so anyway.
Rochelle: Then after I've done that, and this is something that I love doing and I've been doing for years, dry brushing. For lymphatic drainage. So before I have a shower, you see to activate all my little lymph nodes or lymphs, whatever they're called. You tap them, etc. And then dry brushing, which I think is fantastic.
Dr Rupy: Yeah.
Rochelle: Oh, sorry, I've skipped my most favourite part. And you know this because it's like my morning ritual right after, sorry, this happens after the meditation.
Dr Rupy: Actually, can we just pause there because you mentioned filtered water and I think that's really important.
Rochelle: The filtered water, yes.
Dr Rupy: So we have a water filtration system that uses reverse osmosis. Gosh, I remember when I first came across reverse osmosis and I was like, this does not sound like something that is a thing. It just sounded really woo-woo and wacky.
Rochelle: I think it's the osmosis word.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, I think it's that, this reverse osmosis. I was like, I've heard of osmosis. I know what osmosis is, you know, the movement of particles from a more concentrated solution to a less concentrated solution across a semi-permeable membrane. Why would you do reverse like, how does that even? Anyway, I was wrong about that. So reverse osmosis is a very sort of heavy-duty filtration system that removes a lot of the crap that is in our water. And we're doing a podcast on water soon actually with an expert in this field because our water unfortunately is contaminated with a lot of these things, volatile compounds, some heavy materials, heavy metals, pesticides, unfortunately, you know, it just leaks into our water system. And unless you're like bleach it or I think it's partly because of the treatment of water as well, as well as the fact that a lot of people just flush their, you know, tablets down the, you know... That's all right. What was I saying? Yeah, people, you know, they flush their tablets down the bathroom, you know, down the toilet and unfortunately that gets into our system, including, you know, contraceptive pills as well.
Rochelle: Yeah, I read that.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Rochelle: That is worrying.
Dr Rupy: It's a big, it's a big problem, I think. I don't think it gets that much attention. There are lots of estrogen like xenoestrogens in our world. So one of the things that we made a decision to do, particularly as we were partly bottle feeding, formula feeding rather, Raphael, was to get a, you know, heavy-duty water filtration system. And we use the, I forget the brand now.
Rochelle: AquaTru.
Dr Rupy: AquaTru, that's it. Again, we're not sponsored or anything, but yeah.
Rochelle: I could not believe the taste change. From so the water filter takes 15 minutes and you just sort of watch it go in and out and like it's all cloudy when it comes out. The flavour, the taste is completely different.
Dr Rupy: Very different. Yeah, yeah.
Rochelle: Because London tap water is notoriously awful.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, the thing that we need to do actually because you know that guy Jay came over from Light Room, I think it is. I should look that up actually. It is called Light Work. So when Light Work came over and they like reviewed our house and all the rest of it, one of the things that they recommended were incandescent light bulbs. So these are the old school light bulbs that don't use LED because LED...
Rochelle: How funny is that because they're not energy efficient.
Dr Rupy: They're not energy efficient. No, this is a trade-off. Yeah, exactly. Or you could just switch them off, you know, have less of them. But the the specific wavelength of these LED lights can be disruptive to your melatonin. Whereas the incandescent ones are lower. There are also some specialized Philips ones as well that you can buy that I haven't looked into. I need to get some of those.
Rochelle: Let's do that. They're red like coloured. I really, I was listening to someone talk about her red lights. You could probably guess what podcast they heard this on. I think that's really important.
Dr Rupy: What is the podcast that you listen to all the time?
Rochelle: It's my favourite podcast. It's not The Doctor's Kitchen. It's a great podcast, Rupy. A lot of people think that. The His & Her Show.
Dr Rupy: The His & Her Show, that's it. Okay, fine.
Rochelle: We're doing our own variation now.
Dr Rupy: Basically, yeah, yeah.
Rochelle: I know that she loves her red lights in the in her bedroom.
Dr Rupy: Yeah.
Rochelle: And again, to like sort of calm you before you go to bed. And I think it does sort of, yeah. I think it is sort of like quite soothing because you don't want bright light right before you're going to go to bed, like shut your eyes.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, totally. Yeah, yeah.
Rochelle: And then magnesium before I go to bed as well. Magnesium supplements.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah, you take your magnesium. Actually, just on that note about the phones and stuff like that, I think there is a study looking at media use before sleep and it showed that, you know, you basically want to protect the the bookend of your day because it there is clear evidence that you are disrupting your your signals before you go to bed. So it's definitely something that you want to maintain.
Rochelle: And I need to finish reading The Dose book.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, The Dose, yeah, T.J. Power who's on the pod.
Rochelle: You gave me the book for me. I'm halfway through it. I didn't bring it all the way here, but I'll finish it when I get back.
Dr Rupy: You know, it's funny, I suggested this to someone the other day who was like taking, what was it? Ashwagandha and some some other sleep supplement to help them go to sleep. Oh, he was asking me about magnesium as well that we'll go into in a second. And I was like, yeah, you could definitely take those, but like, what are you doing in the last couple of hours before going to bed? And he was like, oh, you know, I watch TV, I might do a few emails, I check my phone, all that kind of stuff. I was like, dude, this is what you need to be removing before and having an earlier dinner. These are things, these are things that are going to improve your sleep. But as soon as I said, you can't watch TV or use digital devices a couple of hours before bed, he was like, no, no, I can't do that. I can't do that. I'd rather supplement my way out of a bad habit. Which is not, you can't do that.
Rochelle: But do you know what? Maybe it's worth just trying it and seeing if there's an impact. If you try it and you feel no impact, then go back to watching TV or whatever.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, totally, totally.
Rochelle: But you mentioned the eating earlier and this is a big thing for you. When you come home, you're like, I want to eat now. I'm like, well, Raphael's just eaten. The birds are still up. And it requires like a whole another level of organization to have dinner that early and manage like bedtime, etc. But for you, you think that it makes you sleep a lot better. You really feel the benefit.
Dr Rupy: A huge difference. A huge difference. I can definitely tell because I, you know, I use my wearable, I can check my sleep quality, I know what my trends are. When I have an early dinner, I go to sleep quicker, my deep sleep is preserved, and I just, yeah, I I stay asleep, I I, you know, I have good quality sleep throughout the night. So yeah.
Rochelle: Not always possible, but when it is, like there's a benefit.
Dr Rupy: Totally, yeah. It's a guide, not like a rule. I mean, like, you know, we'll go out for dinner, we were just planning where we're going to go out for dinner this week actually whilst we're in Sydney, and I'm looking for bookings that are like...
Rochelle: You want to go for dinner at 6 o'clock. We are like grandparents, Rupy. 8:15, we're on holidays.
Dr Rupy: I know, but you know, he wakes up early and he's jet-lagged. Anyway, you were taking magnesium.
Rochelle: So magnesium, I find also really helps for sleep before bed. Over to you in terms of optimal dose.
Dr Rupy: Look, I I think magnesium can definitely improve sleep in some groups, particularly the elderly with insomnia. I'm not saying that you're elderly or an insomniac. I think it really depends on the quality of the supplement you're taking. So the ones that I recommend are magnesium threonate, glycinate, and bisglycinate. There are lots of different, you know, brands out there, but those are the ones that you're looking for specifically for sleep. And the potential mechanism is a potential effect on melatonin again, the sleepy hormone, stress hormones in some trials as well. And it sort of antagonizes certain neurotransmitters that can keep you awake. So that have that anti-stimulating effect. Yeah. So the dose, I know you take too high a dose.
Rochelle: I do take too high a dose, but it works for me, so...
Dr Rupy: We're looking at 400 milligrams of magnesium. You, I think you take double that or something.
Rochelle: Yeah, something more than that.
Dr Rupy: Right? Yeah.
Rochelle: But it works for me, so...
Dr Rupy: Yeah, and look, you can you can get enough magnesium from your diet and you probably are already. You're getting your greens in, you're getting things like pumpkin seeds, you're getting, you know, other nuts, you're you're getting enough minerals from your diet generally. If you want to use that as a supplement to add to it, great. The thing that I would recommend people be aware of are digestive complaints, constipation...
Rochelle: Sorry, like it has a laxative effect.
Dr Rupy: It has a laxative effect, so it has it's sometimes used to treat constipation.
Rochelle: I didn't know that.
Dr Rupy: So it just might be something just to monitor with your...
Rochelle: Proceed with caution.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, exactly.
Rochelle: Fair enough. And then, my mouth tape. I love mouth taping. And this was one that you were very sceptical about. And obviously it's not an attractive look.
Dr Rupy: No.
Rochelle: But it's not an attractive look.
Dr Rupy: Yours looks like a moustache as well.
Rochelle: It's not a moustache. It's meant to be lips, Rupy, not a moustache. I use the drift ones. I got them off health. But they're really nice also because some of the cheap ones that you can buy from Amazon, because obviously like they can be really expensive and you think it's another thing to add to your wellness regime. But the cheap ones on Amazon rip your lips because you have to have them dry, otherwise they won't stick properly. And so when you're removing it in the morning, and I know some people say that you should use like a mist or something to help remove them, it doesn't work. The drift ones that I use actually like are more gentle because you don't want to be ripping off your like your skin on your lips. Like that's awful, especially if you're doing it every day. So I really like it and I find that I sleep so well with my mouth tape. And that's now that's probably because I was a mouth breather. And so a lot of people aren't. And so then they don't need mouth tape. So for me, it's encouraged, it's encouraged me to sleep with my mouth closed. Last night, I went out for lunch yesterday and Rupy will attest, I had a few drinks. And I didn't take my magnesium and I didn't have my mouth tape on. But I noticed when I was awake at 3:00 a.m. with jet lag, I didn't, like I wasn't breathing through my mouth. My mouth had like, so it's almost like trained me into breathing through my nose. And I sleep really well with it now.
Dr Rupy: Have you noticed that through the day as well that you're actually breathing through your nose more often when you're just walking around or at your desk?
Rochelle: I've not thought about it.
Dr Rupy: Okay. Because I consciously think about nasal breathing generally when I'm up and about. So when I'm exercising at a low intensity, or when I'm just like walking around or just like, you know, cooking in the studio or whatever.
Rochelle: Yeah. You're doing it now. I can tell you're doing it now.
Dr Rupy: I'm going to think about it. I'm going to think about it this week. You know, you've got to think about your nasal passages as well because sometimes, you know, because of stuffiness or air particles, it can just cause a bit of obstruction and some people struggle with that. I definitely have in the past actually struggled with nasal breathing more generally, but I think...
Rochelle: You are a heavy breather, Rupy. And our son has inherited it. You can hear him breathing a mile away.
Dr Rupy: Yeah. So you've been doing it for how long now?
Rochelle: I started, I didn't, I was thinking about it whilst I was pregnant. I didn't want to start at that point. It kind of felt weird to introduce something that might restrict my breathing. So I started after Raphael was born.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, okay.
Rochelle: And I sleep so much better. And who has started mouth taping?
Dr Rupy: Okay, so I yeah, I have started mouth taping.
Rochelle: That's three to Rochelle.
Dr Rupy: That is number three, yeah. I, so I spoke with a bunch of people actually, but more recently, it was Dr. Stacy Williams, sorry, Dr. Stacy Whitman. And she is a functional dentist out in the States. She was on the Andrew Huberman podcast earlier this year. And she's incredible. Like, so knowledgeable, was previously a sceptic of many things, including things like fluoride in the water, and has changed her tune in a number of different ways after looking at the evidence. One of the things that she's a fan of is mouth taping. Now, I want to caveat here, we're talking about mouth taping from a sort of like, the extra benefits to sleep and a whole bunch of other things that I'll go into in a second. But if you have an obstructive sleep disorder or you have nasal obstruction, of which there are many different causes, this isn't something to do on your own. It's something to do with a practitioner or at least with some advice from your respiratory physician or whoever you're seeing. So the proposed benefits of nasal breathing is that it sort of enforces nasal breathing. Why would we want to breathe through our nose over our mouths? Well, it essentially protects you from dry mouth, which has local effects in your saliva, affecting your saliva. So you don't want to dry out your mouth overnight because your saliva is not just, you know, keeping everything moist, it's actually having an immune function as well. It protects your the the environment within your mouth. You have your bugs there. Your oral microbiome is just as important as your gut microbiome as well. So there are some potential benefits. Nasal breathing almost acts like air conditioning. So it it treats the the air that we're breathing in, like almost like a filtration system. So it traps any sort of particles, it warms the inspired air as well. It, you know, removes things like pathogens, and then anything that is potentially hazardous, it's cleared by something called the mucociliary system. So, you know, activating your immune system. The other thing that gets touted a lot, which you've probably heard about, is nitric oxide. Have you heard about that? You heard about your little podcast? No? Okay, fine. So the the paranasal sinuses, they produce something called nitric oxide, which can reach the lungs and nitric oxide has the ability to again, vasodilate. So it dilates some of the blood vessels and that potentially has a better oxygenating effect. So basically more oxygen gets through your body and then potentially has these impacts on your heart and your brain, your cognition, all that kind of stuff. Largely unproven, I would say, but there's a a mechanism there. And there is another sort of claim that because of this nitric oxide system and the way in which you breathe through your nose, it can lead to some cognitive benefits as well. Again, this is all very hand-wavy stuff, but I would say the best thing is if you're using mouth taping and you literally feel the benefits the next day and you've got an objective measure of improvements in your sleep, it's kind of like a why not? The the reason why people are sceptical about this is because when you literally shut off your mouth and you're not allowing yourself to off-gas, so remove some of the CO2 efficiently, it can lead to build up of that CO2 in your body, which is not something you want if you can't efficiently expel air through your nose.
Rochelle: So my mouth tape has a little hole there.
Dr Rupy: Exactly.
Rochelle: Which is for the off-gassing purposes now I understand.
Dr Rupy: Exactly. So the one that...
Rochelle: I thought it was so you could have a sip of water through a straw.
Dr Rupy: The one that she recommended me was, I think it was by Patrick McKeown.
Rochelle: Now that one looks like a moustache. It's so unattractive.
Dr Rupy: It looks like a box. It looks like a...
Rochelle: This is not a pretty bedtime routine.
Dr Rupy: No, it's not. It's not one for, not an attractive one at all. Who's the, it's like Ricky Gervais in The Office, you know, he's got like a little box. It looks like that basically. Yeah. So the the reason why it's because it's not like causing a physical barrier across your mouth. It's just gently pursing your your mouth. So if I did need to like breathe through my mouth at any point during the night, I can just breathe through my mouth, which is pretty cool.
Rochelle: But it's interesting to see that the mouth tape like it is now taught me to breathe through my nose at night as was evidenced last night.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I I would say, and I've been doing it for the last like month plus now. I've definitely felt the benefits. My my sleep has objectively improved. I'm looking at my tracker. My deep sleep has definitely increased. The quality of my sleep is improving. You know, whether this is because I've habit stacked some other things, like I'm reading before bed, non-fiction, nothing work-related. Actually, at the moment I'm reading something work-related, but by the by. No TV, eating earlier, you know, it's darker in the evenings, apart from right now whilst we're in Sydney. I think these are things that I'm I'm definitely a fan of. There is pushback against this though. You know, this whole mouth taping thing. Yeah, there was a systematic review that came out. It was called, you're going to love this, Breaking Social Media Fads and Uncovering the Safety and Efficacy of Mouth Taping in Patients.
Rochelle: What else did they cover? I was going to say social media fads, what else?
Dr Rupy: I know, yeah, and it was just specifically on mouth taping. But they were looking at a population who had sleep-disordered breathing or obstructive sleep apnoea. I think this is important though because a lot of people are touting mouth taping for those who have a genuine issue, like they've got chronic sleep apnoea or whatever. And I don't think you can just jump into mouth taping if you've got obstruction in your airways. It's just not...
Rochelle: You want to be able to breathe.
Dr Rupy: You want to be able to breathe and I wouldn't say that this would be something for people who have those issues to start. But look, I've been proven wrong a number of times by my wife and I'm happy to admit it. I'm happy to admit it. You were right.
Rochelle: So I have a few questions now of things that I'm not doing, but I want to know about. Let's start with castor oil patches.
Dr Rupy: We've got to go in a little while, you know. You've got to go soon.
Rochelle: You haven't even answered my questions.
Dr Rupy: Okay, I'll make this quick fire.
Rochelle: Castor oil patches.
Dr Rupy: I don't think they're worth it. I think the evidence...
Rochelle: Why are people using them?
Dr Rupy: So people are using them as like a liver detox thing and I look, I can't think of a mechanism behind it. It's an Ayurvedic practice where you have like this cloth and you soak it with castor oil and you put it on there and then like you wrap it and then overnight, people show their cloth and it's like all black and all this kind of stuff.
Rochelle: Oh, gross.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, and it's like, oh, look, this is my liver like detoxing. And I just, I don't understand the mechanism. I can't get on board with it. There are no studies that support this. People are using it for pain relief for endometriosis, which I think there might be some benefit, but I don't think it's because it's detoxing. I think it's because you're putting the pressure on there, you're wrapping it, there's a placebo effect, and you're adding some oil and you're probably massaging it as well. So that abdominal massage might be having some impact. It might even be encouraging like improvements in constipation because abdominal massage, also known as Abhyanga, I think it's Abhyanga or something like that. It's an Ayurvedic practice where you massage around your abdomen and it encourages, you know, you to to release your stools.
Rochelle: There you go. Okay, so that's castor oil patches. Why'd headphones? Why have we gone away from the AirPod? I love my AirPods. Please don't tell me I need to move to wired headphones.
Dr Rupy: So there's controversy around this. So when you speak to experts in environmental pollution from radio frequency, they would say that the emissions from Bluetooth devices are so small that it's the effect is going to be negligible. And we're already awash with a ton of signals anyway. So, you know, there's Wi-Fi all around. If you look at, you know, looking up Wi-Fi right now, we're in a building, like there's going to be like 20 different Wi-Fi signals that we're exposed to.
Rochelle: And your Oura ring.
Dr Rupy: And my Oura ring and everything, you know, the microphones, everything's emitting this electromagnetic frequency. So Bluetooth is not going to be having that much of an impact. People are worried because it's so close to your ears and we use them for an extended period of time that it might have a detrimental impact on your brain. Again, the evidence is not clear, but as a pragmatic move, I don't think we should ridicule people for wanting to remove their headsets if it makes them feel better. They are quite warm as well. So, you know, you are you are close to these devices. In the same way, I wouldn't want to put my laptop on my on on my lap, literally, because I don't want the heat of that, you know, near my my genitals. I wouldn't I wouldn't, you know, I think it's reasonable for people to to remove their their headphones.
Rochelle: But they love my AirPods.
Dr Rupy: I love my AirPods.
Rochelle: Because I have to carry a baby and you know, handbag and all this, you know, it's just a lot more convenient.
Dr Rupy: So the thinking is people are just wiring it into their phones now, is that like the like the old school wired ones.
Rochelle: Yeah, like the old school wired ones.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember those. Yeah. I mean, I really don't use my Bluetooth headset that much.
Rochelle: I use mine all day.
Dr Rupy: Oh, do you?
Rochelle: Yeah, so maybe I need to switch to that. Anyway, well, you're not telling me I absolutely need to, so I'm probably not going to for now.
Dr Rupy: Yeah.
Rochelle: The other one is tallow oil in everything.
Dr Rupy: Oh, I just really don't think that's a trend that we need to get on. I think it was used to be, do you remember like 10 years ago when coconut oil was a thing?
Rochelle: Yeah. It's still a thing, isn't it?
Dr Rupy: It's still a thing, isn't it?
Rochelle: You know, oil pulling, we massage Raffi with coconut oil.
Dr Rupy: This is sacrilegious. People were cooking pasta with coconut oil.
Rochelle: Oh, no, Nonna would be rolling in her grave.
Dr Rupy: I did put tofu in pasta.
Rochelle: And you did. And my mom loved it.
Dr Rupy: She loves it. She loves it.
Rochelle: She loves it. But anyway, so tallow oil not a thing.
Dr Rupy: I don't think so. I think it's high in saturated fat. I don't think we need more saturated fat in our diet. I don't think it's got any of these touted health benefits. I don't think just because you're cooking a chip in tallow oil versus sunflower oil, it's going to magically make this chip healthier. I don't think that's the case.
Rochelle: What about topical application? Because that's how it's being used. Like even yesterday when we were in that health food store, they were selling tallow oil balm.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah. I think look, it's going to have the similar moisturizing effects to coconut oil or whatever. But actually coconut oil is somewhat comedogenic. So it basically blocks your pores and it encourages, well, you can get like spots because of the build up of the the debris that your cells are naturally producing on the surface. And tallow is slightly less comedogenic, which is why people are like, oh, tallow, fix my problems. It's probably because you weren't having a a great hydration routine before then. So I would not put it on your skin. I don't think it's got those benefits. And we've got lighter creams these days. So yeah.
Rochelle: Okay, that's a good one. I was wondering about that. And then NAD.
Dr Rupy: I really don't think it's worth it. So NAD, I think I've discussed this on the podcast before actually, but so the thinking, who who told you about NAD?
Rochelle: Instagram.
Dr Rupy: So NAD are being used as like supplements for longevity. And they're they've been around for a while now, but there are a number of people who've actually been on the show who've said that, you know, looking at some of these mouse studies, they showed improvements in longevity and what happens is this this molecule called nucleotide, I'm going to bust out this name now, nicotinamide riboside. That has shown that it can increase NAD in your cells. And NAD is something that naturally declines as we age. Just because it increases it in cells, I don't think it's, you know, it's touted as having this longevity benefit. I don't think it's worth it. The mechanism that is central to longevity is partly influenced by this, but people are literally spending what, like hundreds of pounds per IV. I just don't think it's worth it. I don't think we have enough human evidence to suggest that it's worth the amount of time as well because you can't like it's not like a quick shot. You've got to like go there for hours at a time. So I really don't think it's worth it. People are like injecting at home as well. Like I just really don't think so.
Rochelle: I mean, I have so many more questions, but we can save that for another time. Provided I get invited back.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, you do have loads of questions. But we've gone through quite a bit. Look, your routine is amazing and I think I want people to recognize that it's not just this routine. You exercise, you have an anti-inflammatory diet, you do all these other things. These are like the supplements. It's like the things on top of...
Rochelle: But I do this because I find it fun.
Dr Rupy: You do find it fun.
Rochelle: You do find it enjoyable.
Dr Rupy: I don't, it doesn't feel like work for me. So exactly, each to their own. Some people might enjoy elements of it or none of it at all and that's totally fine. Each to their own.
Rochelle: Yeah, yeah. But you're great.
Dr Rupy: Thanks, babe.
Rochelle: You're amazing.
Dr Rupy: Thanks. The fact that you're able to do all this.
Rochelle: Thanks for having me on because you couldn't find another guest at this specific podcast time. That's why I'm here, guys.
Dr Rupy: No, I think it was genuinely because I'm interested in A, how you do it, and B, I think I wanted to open up the audience to the questions that I genuinely get from not just listeners of the podcast and people that I meet, but from my own wife who is not medical and, you know, you're not a researcher, but you're interested in these things. You know, you're interested in health and wellness and you do a great job. You know, you're looking after our son, not to say that I'm not getting involved. Of course I'm getting involved. I'm trying to be as involved as I can be. But you're doing these things, you're working full time and you make time for these things. And yes, some of them come at an expense, but some of them don't. So like your guasha thing, like that, you know, these are things that are readily available. So yeah. There are things you splash out on and there are things that I think are like super cheap that everyone can do.
Rochelle: You know what, it's all about balance, Rupy.
Dr Rupy: It is.
Rochelle: It's all about balance.
Dr Rupy: Yeah. Are you teeing yourself up for your own podcast?
Rochelle: No, I'm definitely not. I don't have the time to add anything else to my routine.
Dr Rupy: Okay.
Rochelle: Next time we can talk about Nutmeg's wellness routine.
Dr Rupy: We can. Why not? Why not?
Rochelle: She has a whole wellness routine.
Dr Rupy: She does. It is just more extensive than mine.
Rochelle: We can go into that one another time.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, absolutely. Well, thanks for having me.
Rochelle: Thanks, sweetie.
