Dr Rupy: I'm processing your diet is something that a lot more people are becoming aware of. It's something that I think has become a lot more mainstream these days and your book is just a great resource for folks who want to try and put that into practice, right? Why don't you talk us through why un-processing your diet is so important and some of the tips that you've come across across your career, but also the things that you've been putting into your book as well.
Melissa Hemsley: I feel like ultra processed foods are sort of a bit of a runaway train at the moment. So why I think it's important to un-process your diet is because if we don't do something, a couple of steps now, it's just, they're just going to continue to sort of take over our diets. You, it's hard to walk into a news agent, a corner shop, your local grocery shop and not see aisles and aisles of ultra processed food. So, unfortunately, until the government sort out our food system, make it more equal, make healthy eating more affordable, we've got to do it on our own.
Dr Rupy: Yeah.
Melissa Hemsley: With, you know, people like us in the industry's help, obviously. Like, it's our job, isn't it? To make things easier and like share tips. So, one of the things that's been playing on my mind, I read the intro to my first book, which came out about 15 years ago, and I was...
Dr Rupy: 15 years ago?
Melissa Hemsley: I think so. Yeah. No, hang on, I'm lying. I started private cheffing 15 years ago.
Dr Rupy: Okay.
Melissa Hemsley: I think it came out 12 years ago.
Dr Rupy: Okay. That's still a long time ago.
Melissa Hemsley: Yeah, I've been around.
Dr Rupy: That's amazing.
Melissa Hemsley: I've been around. We met a long time ago.
Dr Rupy: We met a while ago, yeah.
Melissa Hemsley: We met in a Mexican restaurant, didn't we? Anyway, for another podcast. So, um, I read that intro and I was talking about like overly processed food and super processed food. And the term ultra processed food's been around since about 2010. I didn't know it back in 2010, but I, I was conscious of these overly processed foods that were far away from whole foods. But the realistic nature of modern day life is that we don't exist on just whole foods and no one is saying that processed foods, minimally processed foods are bad for you. But we now know that ultra processed foods and eating a diet high in them is linked to serious poor health outcomes. And it's said that your average UK adult is eating close to two thirds of their diet and it's, it's even higher in our under 14s. And I'm a new mum and I, it it just, and and then I read that sales of vegetables went down in 2022. Far down. And I thought this can't be right. So that's why I wanted to tackle this topic. And when I say tackle, I mean it because a lot of people, quite rightly, I mean it's so important to discuss these things from every angle, are like, but for some people they don't have a choice but to eat ultra processed foods. And that's where obviously the government come in and big food need to be really explicit about their ingredients labels and it needs to be really obvious so that if people do eat this, they know what they're getting in for. Uh, anyway, another topic. But what I can do as a cookbook author is to make it as simple as possible to make healthy food as convenient as possible. So that's the challenge I set myself and so my book's split up into the chapters that are the most tricky sticky areas. So like for me, and I know a lot of people, breakfast, working lunches, snacks, be they sweet or those like lovely salty, crunchy ones that you want about five o'clock. And I eat ultra processed foods. They play a smallish part of my diet, my cupboards. I don't tend to have a huge amount at home, um, only because by their very nature, they're quite irresistible, right? And I'm of a personality type where if I can see it, I'll eat it. And that goes for fruit and veg as well. So if I make sure I have these healthy foods at home so that I'm more likely to eat them. Um, so yeah, that's why I wanted to tackle it. I was really also inspired by, um, the work that some people were doing about ultra processed foods and they were talking about it in terms of government and and big food and I wanted to just bring it back to our level and see what I could do.
Dr Rupy: Yeah. I think what you said about being a new mum, like I'm, we're expecting our first child in the next couple of months.
Melissa Hemsley: Very exciting.
Dr Rupy: It is exciting, but I think what you, you mentioned there about the stats for kids and how a larger proportion of their diets is becoming ultra processed. And I think particularly as parents get busier and we lose those home cooking skills, it's just a natural function that we're going to, that kids are going to become more reliant on ultra processed foods as well. So I think that's where you need to put a stake into the ground and and actually just teach people the very basics of like how to un-process your diet as much as possible because I still have ultra processed foods in my diet as well. There are some...
Melissa Hemsley: What are the ones you like?
Dr Rupy: So, I love gochujang. Which is very hard to get like a, quote unquote, clean gochujang, um, that doesn't have high fructose corn syrup in or emulsifiers or whatever. But I use it in such small amounts as like a marinade or, um, you know, a flavor enhancer to what is going to be a largely unprocessed recipe or meal anyway that I don't think it actually holds that much, much weight in terms of the ill health effects. Um, other ones are like marinades and sauces. I try and make those from scratch as much as possible, but you know this...
Melissa Hemsley: You're human.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, you're human. And, you know, as a, as a busy parent, you'll know this more than anyone, it's going to be very hard to cook everything from scratch unless you've got hours and hours of time and you don't run your own business and all the rest of it. So those are probably the two areas where I tend to have more ultra processed foods. The, uh, I used to have to rely on, um, those kind of snacky foods or meal deals when I was out and about. But now I've actually become a lot more intuitive about, um, fasting when I'm out and about. And I, and I know that's like, that's for me, I can do that. But let's say you're a pregnant lady, you can't like fast for long periods of time. And if you're on the road, you're going to have to rely on what's available to you. So I say that was with as much compassion as I can, but I know like I don't need to rely on ultra processed foods when I'm out because I, I can just tap into my fasting window or just increasing the amount of time between meals for me.
Melissa Hemsley: Yeah. Yeah. And for those people that want to have just a handy snack, like your good old nuts and seeds and, you know, I have, um, my boyfriend's like, you're like a magpie. If, if there's ever like a little container or a little jar that comes through our front door, I like squirrel it away and I'm like, oh, that'll make the perfect like little nut, nut, um, container to pop in my handbag or, you know, when you, you know, it's summer now, but you know, when you put on a winter coat and you like put your hand in, you're like, oh, am I going to find like a five pound note? I've always got like some really old nuts. For those moments when you need them. Anyway, so, yeah, absolutely. There's, there's a time and a place for, for, for all slash most foods. And I think it's really important that when we talk about ultra processed foods and un-processing your diet, we're not talking about cutting anything out completely. We're not demonizing. We're just thinking, right, research is showing that eating high amounts is linked to serious poor health outcomes, including mental health, which is something I'm super interested in. And so instead of letting ultra processed foods dominate my plate, I want whole foods and minimally processed foods to dominate my plate. So I'm trying to like flip, flip reverse it. Um, and unfortunately it is pretty hard, depending on where you live, to do that unless you cook more. So I can't pretend it's an easy switch to make, but, um, I actually feel that the busier I get, the more I rely on healthy food. And I haven't slept for a year, having, having a gorgeous little one who, and I don't sleep, so I'm like sleep deprived, and I need that real food more and more. So I know if I ate a lot of ultra processed foods, that I wouldn't feel fantastic. Um, so I'm like making my time in the kitchen count more. I'm making my fridge and freezer and my cupboards work for me even more. Um, and they've become, I've become really reliant on them. So I wrote this book while when she, when my baby was like age two months to maybe like seven months. So I was sort of, I was really guinea pigging myself in the sense that I was thinking, what can you make when you, your brain's like, um, and often I only had one arm free to cook. Um, that's a really good point. I haven't even thought about that. Yeah. Yeah. But so a lot of it is bung it in. A lot of it is tray bakes, a lot of it is one pots. Um, and this, there's nothing new here. This is not pioneering food, but it's, I really wanted to put my most doable and delicious recipes all together in one book. And I've got people that have been making the recipes from the book that actually aren't interested in ultra processed foods and they're buying it because they just love the recipes. And I've got people that are really interested and love food and are real foodies and they're thinking, right, I just need some like tips and tricks to help me eat less of them. And then I've got people that are like, do you know what? And and this is the sort of way I think about it is if you want to un-process your diet, actually don't think about ultra processed foods, just think real food. The more you think about putting more whole food and minimally processed food on your plate, the more you're like shoving the ultra processed food off the plate because there's just less room for them. So that's one like nice way of thinking about it because we all know that fearing food and worrying about it is not going to lead to like positive long term change. So, yeah, concentrating on those good old fruit, veggies, pulses, beans, legumes, herbs, spices. I mean, we all know the drill.
Dr Rupy: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I think, I think it's about putting in a strategy that allows you to lean into that and tap into that. That I want to get to. And just on your point about mental health, I think it's a really important one to make because it's, it's almost like a vicious cycle, right? So we know ultra processed foods can lead to worse outcomes when it comes to your propensity to mental health, your, uh, likelihood of depression, etc, etc. We also know that when you are in a stressed state, let's say you're chronically underslept or you have, uh, a lot of stress in the workplace or whatever, you can self soothe with hyper palatable comfort foods. So when you're at home and you're stressed and you know that you've got those like cookies and donuts and the salty, sugary snacks, they will, you'll reach for them more, uh, because that's what your body is literally telling you to do. And then when you eat them, your satiety signals are completely, uh, out of whack as well, because those can disrupt, those can be disrupted by ultra processed foods. So you get into this vicious cycle where the foods that are causing the mental health issues in some capacity can lead you to overconsume the hyper palatable foods that worsens the situation. So you find people like in this. So that's why for me, I know that snacks are a bit of my kryptonite. I have to keep them out of the house. I know that if there are some snacks in my cupboards, I'm going for those. And so I've got to be really regimented, uh, with my cupboards, which is going to be difficult when I've got kids, when I've got, uh, my wife that doesn't think the same way and has a lot more self control than me. Um, and, you know, when you find yourself in an environment that the snacks are everywhere, like in certain workplaces or whatever.
Melissa Hemsley: My, my baby had, um, some of those like, um, we had like some of those like kid rice, like there was a packet of kid, kiddy rice cakes or something. And up until that point, she would go for berries, she would go for sardines, liver, egg. She heard like the crackle and the crunch of the packet. She saw the brightly colored, um, cartoon and the logo. She felt it on her like lovely like little teethy gummies that were like a bit sore from teething. And she obviously loved the taste, right? And then literally the next time she heard me like open a packet of like spaghetti or like she heard a packet rustle, her head whipped so fast. Wow. Really? Her head was like, what is that? Because she knew, she knew that quickly that that was like exciting and food. And it's so interesting. There's, um, a couple of books about ultra processed food that really delve into the science and like the way that not just the food is ultra processed, but the way that they, the marketing of it, the, everything to do with it and how clever it is. And it is to do as well with the packaging and the marketing. And I've been involved with a couple of amazing food charities and campaigning groups that have campaigned for, you know, no junk food advertising before the watershed, which is so hugely important. Although, I mean, it's a, it's a first step, but of course, most kids don't even watch normal TV like we did, like us 80s kids.
Dr Rupy: Are you an 80s kid?
Melissa Hemsley: I am.
Dr Rupy: Yeah.
Melissa Hemsley: 85.
Dr Rupy: 85, me too. What month are you born?
Melissa Hemsley: June.
Dr Rupy: Oh, I'm a September.
Dr Rupy: You're a Gemini?
Melissa Hemsley: Yeah, I'm a Gemini.
Melissa Hemsley: Oh my god, I'm surrounded by Geminis. It's actually insane. I think 60% of my friendship group is Geminis, the rest is Virgos like me. Anyway, that's boring chat. Um, but, um, kids, us 80s lot could have probably benefited from no junk food advertising before the watershed. Now kids are not consuming media like that, but it's still a first step in reducing what kids are seeing.
Dr Rupy: Okay, so do you know about pester power?
Melissa Hemsley: No.
Dr Rupy: When, so like a, like a pest. Um, so you know at the aisles when you check out, if parents and kids or just, you know, like straight up, like, you know, when you're just queuing, you're hungry and you're tired because often we know not to shop when we're hungry and tired, but that's real life. And then you start seeing snacks and meal deals at the aisle just when you're trying to check out. Or if you online shop, have you ever noticed when you try and complete an order, they just keep advertising pages, so like keep refreshing the page and like showing you, are you sure you don't want this? Are you sure you don't want that? That's a form of pester power because you're just being marketed something at your most vulnerable, clickable, like shopping basket add moment. So, you know, within my book, there's obviously delicious durable recipes, that's standard in a cookbook, fair enough. Then there's like top five things you'd have in the freezer, fridge, cupboards. We've just been rooting around in your freezer, haven't we? Like, we know when you've got a well stocked freezer, you're like halfway to a good meal. You're halfway to making more positive food choices. Um, and then I've got this bit in the book which my publishers were like, don't put that in because there's no photos. You know, people like photos in a cookbook. This is going to be a bit of a boring page. I was like, I'm going to try and not make it boring, but I think it's really useful. And it's, there's about six double pages called how to build and it's like how to build like an epic sandwich. So when you're making your own sandwich or if you find yourself in a spot where you're buying a shop bought sandwich, what can you add to it to make it healthier, to get more plant points in, to make it more satiating. So all of these things, like how to build a really good lunch box, how to build, um, a snack box, how to build a great salad that you actually want to eat and look forward to eating. So I think that's really important as well because, um...
Dr Rupy: They're just cooking building blocks that people need to, like we were talking earlier about how I can like open the fridge door and I could see like a jar of grilled artichokes, uh, some rocket, some tomatoes. And in my head, you know, immediately there's two or three different things I can make with that. There's a salad, there's a stew, I can add some cumin to it or, do you know what I mean? But most people don't have that reflex of how they can combine ingredients together. And some, you know, I think that's sort of pattern or those like no recipe recipes, those building blocks, those foundational skills are really important to to teach people.
Melissa Hemsley: You're lucky that you've been shown how to do that or learned it yourself. I'm privileged that my mum showed me that, um, because my mum didn't want to waste money eating out. She didn't want me to buy, you know, food out. She wanted it to be cooked at home. But most people haven't been given school education, their parents might have been working multiple jobs, their parents weren't cooking. Um, and it's, and now with rising food costs and like people don't want to turn on their oven, which is completely understandable. It's about, yeah, coming back to making your time in the kitchen count, getting the most from your groceries, both from a food waste perspective, don't want to throw your money away perspective. Um, and thinking about taste buds. The Food Foundation, who I quote in the book, they had this, um, study and it really shocked me as a, well, I was pregnant at the time, about how worried they are about kids. Kids who are growing up eating high UPF diets and are not eating a huge amount of fruit and veg, they are then unable to tolerate the taste of vegetables as they get older, which I think, you know, maybe like we grew up with some kids or we were that kid that didn't like it, but eventually got to the point where we did. It's going to potentially become at a crisis point where kids feel sick eating vegetables because the taste profile is so different. And I know and probably lots of people know, if you've eaten, if you've been on holiday and you've been having like your ice cream every like, like 10 o'clock every morning and then you've had dessert at lunch because you're on holiday, you've had dessert at dinner. It's a rude awakening when you're like back on the tube on a Monday morning and you're like, where's my sugar hit? But you can quickly, so you can quickly become used to the taste of sugary or sugar based foods. And I'm talking about savory foods as well that are high in sugar. And yeah, it, I just didn't, I wanted my child to grow up in a world where she explored all the amazing flavors that were available to her and got like a really diverse diet because we also know that we eat the same like four crops. Yeah. Corn, soy, wheat and rice. Um, and you and I were just talking about our dogs and what our dogs eat. And my mum used to say, I was about to do an impression of my mum, but it's just, you know, she's going to kill me. She'd be like, you know, you're, you're a cook and we love food and you just, I can't sit here and eat while our dog eats the same meal over and over again. And I agree, like my dog's like my first child and I love her. And of course, like why should my dog not have loads of variety and diversity in her diet? And unfortunately, also, I'm totally going off topic. Well, you can use animal food as, as quite a good study because most animal foods are made up of, they're like quite, um, fill, like I would call filler, filler foods. They're like really high starch. The meat is, is more expensive. So that it's just very high on the rice, let's say, or the corn or the wheat. There's not much diversity, there's not much plant, there's maybe not huge amounts of fiber. And your dog can probably just carry on eating it.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, there's actually a rising obesity crisis within domesticated animals. Oh god. Yeah, which is, which is a, another thing to be upset about. Which is a, which is a, which is a function, I, I believe of, um, the lack of them going out and exercising because their owners don't go out as much. That's, that's part of the problem. But I think it's also the food that they're consuming as well. So it's a lot of refined, processed, a lot of bone oil instead of actual like meat quality meat products that are in, in their feed. Um, and yeah, just it's, it's interesting that it's kind of in line with how we're also eating as well, right? I want to go back to some of the, the strategies that you mentioned. So, freezer, meal deal, like if you, if you're somebody who is partial to a meal deal, right? Sandwiches, crisps, um, you know, Fanta, whatever. We know that's very ultra processed, high in carbohydrates. What are some of the options that people can have? Because that I think is a, as a lot of people's downfall.
Melissa Hemsley: Yeah. The like British meal deal that we all grew up with. Yeah. People love it as well. Like people freaking love it. I remember when I was younger being like, one day I'm going to work in an office and I'm going to buy my own meal deal lunch and like put like have a briefcase. Um, anyway, uh, yes, that is, that is our sort of standard Monday to Friday working lunch. I think drinks, I, I think if you're going to start anywhere, I think drinks are a great place to start because I mean, I've never been a fizzy drink, I've never been mad for fizzy drinks, but you know, I've tasted them. I can see why they've been, why people get really into them. I think that is probably one of the best places you can start. And that's going to be a big old shock to the system. But one of the things I love to do is, I mean, we talk about this a lot with ginger. Here's me saying your favorite fizzy drink and I'm like, hey, what about a bit of ginger? But ginger is an amazing food. I used to be a private chef, that's how I started, at helping people with cravings. And so one thing if I, if someone wanted to go cold turkey on their fizzy drinks or just start weaning themselves off is making their own or you could just buy your ginger shots, but thinking about, thinking about flavors that really like are delicious and shocking on your system, but are also good for you. So I would go citrusy, I would go gingery, I'd add some sparkling water and I would, I would make that a drink. And I think straight away your taste buds are going to go, wow, wowzer. Three days later, you'll probably lessen your cravings for your fizzy drinks and then you'll be ready to start on the next part of your, of your journey.
Dr Rupy: That's a really good point about fizzy drinks, I think, because sugar sweet and beverages, we know, will mainline sugar to your, obviously your bloodstream, but straight to your liver, and that can lead to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease and, and that actually is a big contributor to overall energy intake that we tend to overconsume in, in, in modern society as well. So that, that would be a great way to start.
Melissa Hemsley: Can I tell you actually, while I'm just thinking of a few things that I suggest that people do, which include looking at your drinks. Um, and I think the drink like door of your fridge, if I imagine like the number of fridges I've been into in people's lives, um, and my fridge, like the fridge is like there, isn't it? When you open up a fridge, if you imagine it's like right by your side and that is where I think it's so easy to grab something. It's like the most grabble bit of the fridge. That's why people put their milk in there and like maybe their chocolate if they're people that keep chocolate in the fridge. Some of us do, some of us don't. So what you've got to do is replace it. So this is the thing where you said you feel you can't have snacks at home. So for me it is about adding in. So I, whether it's my, so I've got this recipe for sticky nuts and seeds, which is like, I can't, I wouldn't feel satisfied just chomping on like plain nuts and seeds. So I flavor them up in different ways. So I might keep a jar of nuts and seeds in the fridge. I keep my really dark chocolate, my 80% plus. I keep coconut water. I don't have huge amounts of it, but when I really want something like sweet and delicious and different than just something I'd make myself, I put there. I keep, um, small jars of lemon and lime juice, pure, for that purpose. And also when I stopped drinking to have a baby, I'd be like, what am I going to drink? I don't necessarily want all the mocktaily drinks every day that's such a big market for it. But I would remember that when I'd go on holiday, I would adore fresh lime, mint and sparkling water. Basically a mojito but no, a no-jito. That's what they call it. So I make sure I have like squeezed lime because I'm not going to go and look for my lemon or lime squeezer or get a knife and a chopping board out. Um, and I just keep that fridge or if you think about the fridge, um, shelf that is eye level with you. So I'm five foot nine, so I might have a different fridge eye level from someone else. That is where I look and that is where I keep my healthy go-to snacks. I don't keep them at the bottom. I don't keep them at the back. They're going to go off and get wasted.
Dr Rupy: That's such a good point. That's like, you've got to think about like a grocery aisle as well. There's a reason why there's certain like, you know, uh, items at eye level versus the ones that are kind of out of sight or like hard to read or...
Melissa Hemsley: Or also when you walk in to your big shop, you often can't get to the fruit and veg for a while. You're like going past all the aisles that are making the high profits. Yeah. First. And then you're like, hey, where can I get an apple or an onion or something like that? Um, but actually speaking of the freezer, okay, so let me just, sorry, I'm jump, I'm getting very excited and jumping around. Um, but one of the things, so, okay, we talked about, I think we've hammered home about drinks just enough for today. Another thing is thinking about the freezer aisle. So when you go to the shop, when you go to the supermarket, so let's say we're talking about supermarkets right now, take advantage of what they're selling you from their freezer aisle. You can get chopped onions, you can get your mixed berries, which are so much cheaper, as we know, than buying fresh berries, and they'll spoil less. Um, so you can make like my five minute frozen yogurt with berries and yogurt as an example. Um, so when you want that sweet treat, you want it in the freezer, you want it to come together quickly, it's there. You can have edamame beans, which I know you absolutely love. Um, you can grab your sweet corn mixes, you can get cauliflower rice.
Dr Rupy: How do you feel about cauliflower in a smoothie?
Melissa Hemsley: I love cauliflower in a smoothie.
Dr Rupy: Oh, in a smoothie?
Melissa Hemsley: Yeah.
Dr Rupy: I've never heard of that.
Melissa Hemsley: Yeah.
Dr Rupy: Really?
Melissa Hemsley: So, our, our American friends, some of the American, um, uh, chefs I follow, they put cauliflower. See, I used to put courgette in smoothies because courgettes can be...
Dr Rupy: Yeah, you can have a green smoothie or whatever, but yeah, it's a lot of water. I get that.
Melissa Hemsley: But cauliflower is pretty good.
Dr Rupy: Wow. Really? I would have thought it would have been too bitter.
Melissa Hemsley: Shall we, have you got any? Shall we go make some?
Dr Rupy: I think we have. We could try it.
Melissa Hemsley: I'm going to go and get some for later.
Dr Rupy: But surely you've got to like add a bit more flavor to...
Melissa Hemsley: Oh god, yeah, not just pure cauliflower. Hey, listen, times are tough, but I'm not suggesting a pure cauliflower smoothie. No. Um, but what, what can you get from the freezer and put in your freezer that is going to make your life easier. So, okay, let me just think, where am I? I'm, I've got this vision of me serving you a cauliflower smoothie now.
Dr Rupy: I know, yeah. I'm thinking of it as well. Like, oh gosh. I'm into my healthy eating, but there's a limit.
Melissa Hemsley: She's gone, she's had a baby, she's gone crazy. But actually, do you know what? Being pregnant taught me a lot of things because crave, okay, I couldn't eat a vegetable for about six months.
Dr Rupy: Really? Oh gosh, that would have been so difficult for you.
Melissa Hemsley: Yeah. I was trying to recipe test at the time as well. Oh wow. And so ginger came up a lot. I was really craving cheese, which, which was, you know, a nice high fat protein food that I could eat. I kept reminding myself, my child is going to be fine because of course, like a lot of what your baby is using when your baby's growing in you is not your food literally as it comes in and out. It's like my diet before I got pregnant. So I tried not to stress about that because you and I are both of the firm believer of if you stress about it, it's, you know, there's no point. I always think no, don't stress while you're eating a kale salad. There's no point. Don't hate and stress a kale salad. Um, but also, what was, what was I just about to say? Oh, I, oh yeah, my food cravings. When I would really crave sugar, I read that, um, eating protein was a good, was a good thing to do. So whenever, when I was feeling low on energy, I was pregnant, all of these like my hormonal changes, growing, you know, a new liver, growing a set of lungs that afternoon, I would reach for more protein when I was, um, craving sugars.
Dr Rupy: It was protein super satiating. It, it's really good in terms of like making sure that you're not going to overeat. A lot of people are craving the nutrients that are in high protein foods, but they, they interpret that as a sugar craving. And then also there's like a higher thermic, um, effect of processing protein as well. So you're going to use a lot of that energy to, to break down the proteins itself. And amino acids are building blocks of life. So, you know, that's what babies need when you're growing a baby as well.
Melissa Hemsley: Yeah. Back to the tips. So here are just like a kind of like quick fire things that I would try and do is I would always freeze a fave. So anything that was like my go-to cozy comfort food that was definitely not something I'd make on a Monday night, but I knew would be satiating, I knew I'd love and I knew I could get some veggies in. So I think my bolognese in this book's got mint, lentils and like nine different vegetables in as well. So I don't make that weekly, I make that monthly and I freeze. I would, um, often think how can I add more vegetables? So whether it was my cauliflower into my smoothie to be, to be confirmed whether that goes down well, or I would keep my, one of my favorites is frozen spinach because, you know, you just throw it into any dish and it cooks in a minute or so. And leafy greens, I remember when, um, I was researching, um, foods and mental health, and of course there's not one food that's going to support your mental health, but I saw that a lot of people were talking about lots of us are deficient in leafy greens. Like we just are not getting as many leafy greens. Maybe we're eating the same old fruit and vegetables. And on that topic, I would think every time I would do a weekly shop, I'd think, okay, what if I add one less ultra processed food to my shopping list and what if I add one more whole food or one more minimally processed food? And then I did the maths and now I can't remember it, but then in a month that's you're adding, you're, you're taking away four ultra processed foods, you are adding four whole foods. So in a year, four times 12 is 12, 24, 36, 48. You've got basically 50 new whole foods in your diet, 50 less ultra processed foods. So that's a nice easy way of getting it in. Just keep it as simple as that.
Dr Rupy: That's a good way of thinking about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And very, very achievable as well if you're just thinking about it.
Melissa Hemsley: Very achievable. And also no one's, no one's in competition here. No one's saying who can cut out ultra processed food the fastest. It's just going, okay, what little tweaks can I do? For me, I know like a lot of people when you start the day off right, you feel better for it in so many ways, whether it's exercising or getting some morning light or not being on your phone. And for me, getting some vegetables under my belt at breakfast is a good one. And I know a lot of people aren't savory breakfast people, but I grew up in a Filipino household where my mum would like make mackerel for breakfast, so I'm okay. But I love a frittata, I love a mushroom slice, um, I can eat mushrooms and spinach on toast, or yeah, what can you add to your smoothie or what can you add to your, um, breakfast pot? So I love a bircher muesli, which has got grated, grated apple, but I love adding grated carrot too. Sometimes I add grated...
Dr Rupy: I thought you were going to say cauliflower then.
Melissa Hemsley: No. I saw your face. I was like, where's he going with this? No. So then I'm like, oh, okay, I've got three different fruit and veg in this morning. And that feels good. And I love it because, you know, I'll make four days worth of a bircher muesli or an overnight oats. Don't have to think in the morning.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah, that's epic.
Melissa Hemsley: Um, so just little things like that. And I think I just really want to hammer home the point that, yeah, I love food like everyone, I'm sure listening in here. So none of these ideas are designed to make you sick of a food. There's no like rolling over leftovers and thinking, oh, I'm going to eat it because I know it's healthy or because I can't be bothered to cook today. Like it is about making sure that everything is delicious, but also embracing the whole foods. Um, and satiety is such an interesting one because I agree like things can so easily and quickly go skew-whiff when it comes to things like that. And I, I guess the main thing is tapping into how we feel. And I know that I don't feel fantastic on high ultra processed foods. I know I feel really good on whole foods, but I also don't feel great on all whole foods. So a bit like I just said, don't hate and stress about eating a kale salad. There's going to be foods that not all of us feel good on. And I think that when you cut back on ultra processed foods and you eat more minimally processed food, you do start to tap into what feels good in your tummy, what suits my digestion, how do I feel? I saw something that I'd like screenshot on my phone from ages ago and it was like, I wish that when you ate, I wish that when you saw a food, it would tell you how you would feel afterwards. And so a big thing for me as I get older and older and as I explore my mental health more, or as I explore tools to help me with my mental health more, I really think about when I eat something, is it going to give or take away from me in an hour's time or half a day's time? And you and I were just talking about like what we drink in the afternoon versus what we drink in the morning, what we, what we eat in the morning, what we eat in the afternoon. Like, I guess I've got less and less time, especially now I'm a parent, to feel crap on food.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, it's a really good point because, you know, I think people have come around to this idea of, particularly caffeinated drinks, like if you drink a coffee at 10 a.m. versus two or 3 p.m., we're, we're becoming more aware of the ramifications of that. Disruptive sleep, a crappy next day, right? Or if you have alcohol, for example, and you drink that, depending on when you're drinking it, how much you're drinking it, what the dose is that you can tolerate, etc, that's going to have a knock on effect. I don't think we have the same sort of intuition or reflex with food. We don't think, oh, if I have this cereal, or most, I, I'd certainly think this now, but if I have this cereal, how am I going to feel in two or three hours time? Am I going to get peckish? Am I going to feel low? Am I going to feel crappy after that sugar high and then corresponding sugar crash? And I think we need to become a lot more, uh, intuitive and and, um, uh, understanding of the effect of food on our biology over the next hours, but also the next couple of days as well. And I think as a parent, you'll probably...
Melissa Hemsley: And you know what's funny is, it's like at the weekend or maybe when we're on holiday, there's certain foods that it doesn't matter so much. But, you know, when you've got like a big project or like I think about if I was to go on live TV tomorrow morning or I was going to do a big presentation to my boss tomorrow, there's certain things you would do in preparation. And I'm not saying that every day is like that, but there's things I can get away with on a Saturday when I'm chilled and I'm having a duvet day or, I mean, I'm like, what duvet days do I have anymore? But let's just say it's a weekend and I'm having a lion, I can cope with that food hangover or something. Can't do that anymore. I want, I do want to, I don't need to feel like my best, best, bestest self and live my best, best, bestest life, but I do want to, I do want to use food more to make me feel good while I enjoy food. I don't want to, I, I, I just don't want to, I want to feel less crap less often.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, you want to, you want to, you want to lean into the functional benefits as well as the flavor as well. Um, and that's, I mean, it's interesting you say about like your thinking about your day when you're consuming food. I think that about that a lot. Like there are certain days where I can fast until 12 or 1 p.m. and that just suits my lifestyle. It's convenient, etc. But if I'm doing podcasting the entire day, or I'm doing particularly if I'm doing solo podcasts where I'm doing, you know, filming or whatever, I've got to have breakfast first thing in the morning because I know what my energy levels are like. And when I'm fasting, I don't really tap into that sort of the metabolic switch where I, I start burning fat and I get, you know, the, um, sort of cognitive benefits. It takes me a lot longer. So I will make sure that I've got a high protein, um, satiating breakfast that day. And it's usually savory as well. It could be leftovers, it could be, you know, mushrooms, greens on toast or whatever. Um, that I need that and I know how I feel afterwards, just through trial and error. And so figuring out what your, uh, what your preferred meal is for how you want to fuel your day is something that I think people can get used to.
Melissa Hemsley: And you say preferred food, it's like that preferred feeling that's unique to you. And I think, uh, you know, for people, you know, all of us have hormone fluctuations, but especially at certain times of the month, especially when you're going through pregnancy, postpartum, I didn't realize how long postpartum could go for. There's like certain things that you, you need more of and definitely your activity levels and where you are. And I think times of the year, I think times of the year we lean into certain foods or eating foods at different times more than others. Um, so I guess what, in summary, what we're saying is, is working out what suits you best. And only you will be able to tell and it's definitely, I don't want to get all mindful eating, but I talk about mindful eating very briefly in the book and I say, you know, sorry, not sorry if this bit makes your eyes roll, but I do think that I remember 15 years ago, 12 years ago, whenever, I think I wrote the book 15 years ago, but it was 12 years ago that it came out. I remember talking about gut and listening to your gut and gut health. And I remember my publisher at the time being like, what are you doing talking about gut in a cookbook? Obviously, I'm not a nutritionist, I'm not a gut health specialist, but I, I cared about gut and food. And I think now the term mindful eating, like has been more embraced because we've all realized, we intuitively know what suits us best. And so, yeah, I'm all for whatever, you know, you do you when it comes to the food, hey?
Dr Rupy: Yeah. Um, I'm going to do a quick fire round of three ingredients that you couldn't live without in your kitchen. So, yeah, what's the first ingredient? What's your go-to?
Melissa Hemsley: What is my go-to? I would say like a lovely sea salt. I don't think I could live without salt.
Dr Rupy: Oh, interesting.
Melissa Hemsley: I don't think I could live without salt.
Dr Rupy: What are we talking? Maldon, or...
Melissa Hemsley: Yeah, I love my Maldon. I mean, I'm, I'm, you know, half Filipino, so I could replace my salt with like a tamari or a soy, but I think it would have to be a salt because I love even like, I've got lovely peanut butter, no bake bars, chocolate ones with a little bit of sea salt. So, you know, I love it in my sweet flavors.
Dr Rupy: Salt's a good one. Salt's a good one.
Melissa Hemsley: Like how you're like quick fire and you're like, well...
Dr Rupy: Yeah. Okay, salt. Next.
Melissa Hemsley: A lovely olive oil. Like I think obviously we know you need fat in your diet and people are less afraid of fat now and we need fat for all of our fat soluble vitamins. So I would say like a lovely olive oil or a butter. I don't know which one I could, yeah, olive oil or a butter.
Dr Rupy: Which one would you go for?
Melissa Hemsley: Maybe olive oil because I've got a lovely olive oil granola. Which I guess would be delicious with butter too.
Dr Rupy: What, what, what kind of oil are we talking? Are we talking a Spanish? Are we talking a Greek? Like, what's your go-to brand if you can say that?
Melissa Hemsley: Well, if I had all the money in the world to live off, they're called Two Fields.
Dr Rupy: Oh, Two Fields. The regenerative oil. Yeah, buddy.
Melissa Hemsley: The regenerative oil.
Dr Rupy: Great. Yeah, yeah.
Melissa Hemsley: And you know what? Um, I, I buy for Christmas presents for my colleagues, I buy them Two Fields for Christmas. It's a good one. It's gorgeous. So, you know, yeah, so salt, olive oil. God, Rupy.
Dr Rupy: People are probably thinking, salt, olive oil, this is so basic. These are things that you don't even put in the recipe list because people always have.
Melissa Hemsley: Oh, do you want me to go for more?
Dr Rupy: I think, no, no, I think it's really important. I actually appreciate that.
Melissa Hemsley: Okay, I'm going to go leafy greens. I've been, through, through my fertility journey, uh, as you know, I had my, uh, baby via frozen embryo, my, my eggs. Um, and I did a lot of, um, trauma release therapy and, um, like mental health soul searching. And during that process, I was diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder and ADHD. And so I did a hell of a lot of reading and like I mentioned earlier on, I went, right, I'm going to up my leafy greens because I feel like I eat so many fruit and veg. I eat loads of herbs and spices. I eat great fats. I try and be a mindful eater. I try and reduce my stress. I try and sleep more. But you know what? I could probably do with a few more dark leafy greens in my diet. They are harder to get when eating out. They're almost impossible to get like in your casual dining or like in your meal deals. So you know what? I'm going to up more leafy greens at home. And so I would put those as my third.
Dr Rupy: What, what would you go for? Like a cavolo nero?
Melissa Hemsley: I love a cavolo nero. Um, I love a cavolo nero. I love cabbage. We ate a lot of cabbage growing up. I also spent a lot of time. I mean, I'm talking more dark leafy greens, but in terms of the cruciferous families of your Brussels sprouts and your cabbages, I love them too. But I think a good all rounder is a baby spinach. It's very mild flavor, easy to sneak into drinks, to baking, to muffins, to frittatas. So I'd go, yeah, for a leafy green.
Dr Rupy: I love how you're getting veggies in drinks. I just got to say that. It's a, it's brilliant. I don't think it comes intuitively to me, but I appreciate that.
Melissa Hemsley: You know what? It's not like I grew up eating this, eating that way. I mean, I remember saying to my mum, my mum was wouldn't have like branded snacks and things at home. A lot because she thought it was a huge waste of money because a lot of these foods are, they used to be more expensive. And I remember begging my mum like for a birthday for like, do you remember those Kellogg's multi-pack cereals? I, that's all I wanted for my birthday. I could have, I mean, they're sweet enough to be like a birthday cake. I was like, I don't need a party. I don't need presents. I just want one of those. So she was pretty good at that, but I, I have realized what's always worth doing is giving something a go and seeing if you like it. Try that cauliflower in your smoothie. If you don't like it, move on. You might go, wow, I've been thinking I need to eat more fruit and veg. I've been worrying about it. Done. Cauliflower smoothie, done.
Dr Rupy: Love it. Okay, that's going to be a revelation for me. This is great. Thank you. I'm going to put that in my smoothie next time. This is awesome.
