Sophie: Yes.
Dr Rupy: Is protein just for bodybuilders or gym goers?
Sophie: No.
Dr Rupy: Do you need protein powder to hit your protein goals on a plant-based diet?
Sophie: Not necessarily.
Dr Rupy: Is it true that plant protein is of lower quality than animal protein?
Sophie: Same same, but different.
Dr Rupy: Same same, same different. Okay. And what is your top protein source that you buy every single week?
Sophie: For me personally, it has to be extra firm tofu.
Dr Rupy: Today I'm joined by personal trainer Sophie Whaplington to break down one of the biggest concerns for plant-based eaters: getting enough protein and maintaining strength. Today we're going to be tackling common fears around plant-based eating including, am I getting enough protein without meat? Will I lose muscle if I switch to a plant predominant diet? And is plant-based eating too expensive and complicated? And together, we're going to explore the science of protein quality, practical meal building tips and effective training strategies to support muscle health and strength. It's one of my bugbears that we don't talk enough about protein, healthy, high protein. It is super important to make sure everyone knows how much protein they should be consuming, particularly if you are of a plant-based persuasion or if you're like me and you have a plant predominant diet. There are so many benefits to be had by getting more plants into your diet, but we do need to be cognisant of the protein quality and the protein amount as well. We go into resistance training, the differences between proteins from plants and animals, whether the current scores and metrics around bioavailability and absorption are actually useful in the context of eating a complete meal, as well as the common mistakes when transitioning to more plant-based eating as well. Sophie, if you don't know, is a celebrated plant-based chef, content creator and highly sought after fitness expert. Her influence spans the globe with a dedicated fan base of well into the millions. She is incredible at plant-based cuisine and she is a stickler for how plant-based eating can be not only delicious, but also nutritionally robust and protein packed. We have a wonderful conversation today and I'm really glad that we as creators and individuals and researchers and scientists can have pragmatic conversations even when we might differ in our opinions on the science as well. And I think it's really important to show all sides of the spectrum of opinions and beliefs out there because ultimately, there is no one size fits all. Some people might thrive on a plant-based diet and others might thrive on a meat-based diet or a more meat-based diet. And I think it's really important to ensure that we're getting a collection of voices, particularly on the Doctor's Kitchen podcast, as we can have long-form discussions where we can talk through the nuance of our differing opinions as well. I really, really hope you like today's episode. I loved cooking with Sophie in the Doctor's Kitchen studio and chatting with her on the podcast. And if you're interested in high protein recipes, you can obviously check out Sophie's brand new book. It is linked in the podcast show notes. Make sure you do go check that out. It is an awesome cookbook, particularly if you're interested in batch cooking, delicious high protein recipes and you want some ingenuity and inspiration if you're plant-based. And if you're looking for even more inspiration, don't sleep on the Doctor's Kitchen app either. We've got tons of recipes that can be vegan or omnivore or whatever your dietary preference, as well as filters and of course health goals, whether that be heart health, brain health, our new goal, menopause health or gut health, which we've also just launched as well. Make sure you check that out. It's down linked in the description and the recipe that I'm absolutely loving right now are our double chocolate cookies. I'm a bit of a snacker and I want to be able to snack in a healthy way and those cookies, they tick all the boxes for me and my protein requirements and my fibre requirements as well. And of course, today's episode is sponsored by Exhale. I'm chief science officer for Exhale. I love coffee. I love ridiculously tasty coffee and I love ridiculously healthy coffee as well. And their coffee is specially roasted to ensure that the polyphenols are of great quality and are boosted. In fact, they independently lab test their coffee to ensure that there are high levels of polyphenols. It's pesticide free and it genuinely tastes delicious. And if you want to try it yourself, then you can try the buy one get one free offer by clicking on the link on your podcast player right now or using the code Rupy241 at checkout. But now onto my podcast with the wonderful Sophie Whaplington.
Dr Rupy: In terms of the convenience of people consuming enough protein, do you think for most people who who aren't cooks like us, that it can be difficult? And I guess this is part of the premise of your whole, you know, your whole philosophy and your recipes, you're showing people how easy it can be, but if you're starting from scratch, can you see why people might struggle with plant-based eating to get enough protein?
Sophie: Yeah, of course. I think when you grow up and you're always having animal meat for every, you know, every dinner, probably most lunches, you are going to wonder, okay, what do I replace it with? And the problem is, initially when there was this big boom in vegan diets, it's probably about 10 years ago now, people were saying you can replace a steak with a cauliflower steak. And that simply is not a like for like swap or comparison. It's not going to give you the same nutrient value, it's not going to give you the same protein density as a steak. A cauliflower steak is delicious. I love them, but they are not the same, you know. So, you have to really think about it. So you have to, I guess, invest that initial time period into learning and upskilling yourself and learning what are the best sources of plant protein that I can replace the main component of animal meat in my meal with. And having them on hand, knowing how to prepare them, they're very easy. I'd say it's a lot easier than cooking meat. And of course, you cook them in the same way, you know. You would season a chicken breast, you would season a steak. The same way that you would season a tofu steak or, you know, tofu that's been ripped up and then you can fry it off to make it crispy or whatever. It's, it's, you know, it is quite simple, but there is that initial investment of like upgrading your knowledge, which is why I've, you know, I've spent all the time in investing into creating this content, which hopefully makes it easy for people. And all of my recipes when I'm developing them, I'm thinking about what protein source do we start with and we work back from that.
Dr Rupy: Yeah. So you always start protein first?
Sophie: Absolutely.
Dr Rupy: When you're making. Okay. And you've never eaten meat, have you?
Sophie: No. Yeah, never had meat. People are like, how are you alive? They poke me and they're like, you're going to fall over. Um, no, like shockingly, I haven't. It's my mum brought me up vegetarian.
Dr Rupy: Okay.
Sophie: So she went, she actually turned veggie when she was about 12.
Dr Rupy: Interesting.
Sophie: And then she brought me up and said, when I got to a certain age, it was, your friends are going out to McDonald's, you can do that too, but this is where that comes from.
Dr Rupy: Right.
Sophie: So I want you to know where it comes from and have like, I'd not kind of have that dissonance piece where you don't understand where the meat on the shelf comes from. And I used to love going to farms. I loved animals as a kid. I was like, I don't want to eat that. So that was a decision that I then took on and you know, that became part of my identity. But it's it's it's been it's really like tightly wound up in my identity because it's something that I've always been either I've always never eaten meat, I've always either been a vegetarian or or completely plant-based or vegan.
Dr Rupy: Interesting. And so your mum, is she she's still vegetarian, I'm assuming?
Sophie: She's still vegetarian. Yeah. She likes to say that she's gone vegan, but I see her sneaking cheese. I'm like, I'll let you off. Um, I honestly, I don't think that every, it doesn't suit everybody. A 100% plant exclusive diet or veganism is a choice people make for ethical and animal reasons. Um, I don't think that it's something, I'm not going to sit here and preach and say that everybody should be vegan. And I don't believe it. I don't believe that they should. Everyone should have a diet that suits them, that's easy for them. But a lot of people could benefit from swapping some animal for plant protein for a number of very good reasons.
Dr Rupy: Yeah. And it's it's interesting, isn't it? Because I think, I mean, we might get into this a little bit later, but if you have intolerances or you simply can't digest some of the high fibre plant-based sources of protein or you have allergies and soy is like one of the number one allergies. Um, it may be really difficult, nay I say impossible to meet your protein requirements. Would you say that?
Sophie: I wouldn't say it's impossible.
Dr Rupy: Okay.
Sophie: No, because you can, you know what you can do these days? You can make tofu out of any legume. You can make it out of red lentils, out of black lentils, out of any colour of basically any legume. I had a um, a recipe I made recently with fava beans, um, which are really high in protein. They've got a really, really good, you know, amino acid profile. And it took me probably about 20 minutes to make it and then it takes about 45 minutes to set in the fridge. You know, and you can batch cook that at the start of the week. So actually it's very cost effective. Um, and it gives you, I would say, just a little bit less protein than like a soybean would. So it's a really easy way to do it. And of course you've got lentils, you've got bulgur lentils, there's lots in wheat protein.
Dr Rupy: Totally.
Sophie: Yeah, I think it can be done.
Dr Rupy: I I I agree. It can definitely be done for let's say you had an isolated individual who had a soy intolerance or allergy. Absolutely. If you start combining all these different things, like people who have IBS as a result of fermentable sugars, a lot of fermentable sugars are in some of these products, most legumes, they tend to have these polysaccharides that ferment quickly in their gut and they just have an immediate reaction to them. So, and you know, there are lots of ways in which you can amp up your tolerance of these foods by going very, very slow with the direction of a dietitian, a tablespoon of pre-lentils per day is sometimes the advice that we give that we gently titrate up so they actually get to enjoy eating out and actually having some legumes that we all know are great for us. But a lot of people actually can't tolerate legumes as well as soy as well. And so when you get into this issue, this sort of pattern of eating, you're like, I really want to eat this, but I can't, my body is telling me I can't eat this. I find it quite difficult to then say, you know, you can continue your plant-based or exclusive plant-based diet in those circumstances. And we're talking about the minority of people here. I know I don't want to say that this is an excuse for people to not uh, try a plant-based diet. But certainly I I want to be respectful of people who who genuinely would want to try, but they just can't because their body's telling them otherwise.
Sophie: Of course, yeah. I mean, and for some people, it just it won't work, I'm afraid. But that doesn't mean that they can they can't get the benefits of adding some of it to their diet. You know, even if it's one meal a week or two meals a week that are animal-free. Yeah. Um, I still think that would be really good for them, really good for their overall health and longevity.
Dr Rupy: Yeah.
Sophie: So yeah, but it's it's not for everybody and you know, the so many reasons why people can't be completely plant exclusive. And I definitely respect that. It can be social reasons, it can be like you were mentioning allergies. Um, yeah, it's difficult. And maybe some people don't have the time to invest in getting the knowledge up there. Oh, well then I'll have to scratch. That's okay.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, that's the other thing.
Sophie: But we make it easy if they do want to.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah. And I think right now, like it's never been easier to have good quality plant-based proteins that I want to go into now actually. Um, that you can pick up from your supermarket. I do not remember a time where I was able to go to not even the major supermarket, just like a local supermarket and find tofu on the shelves. So at med school, I don't remember being able to do that. Like it wasn't a thing for me. I mean, maybe maybe I wasn't looking out for it. Maybe you were like, no, there's always tofu there. There's always been some options.
Sophie: When were you at med school?
Dr Rupy: Oh, 2003.
Sophie: 2003. There was definitely tofu on the shelf. Oh, really? I was nine in 2003, about eight. Okay. You remember what was on the shelves in your age?
Dr Rupy: Well, I was eating it. I was definitely eating it.
Sophie: Yeah, yeah. Um, but yeah, um, yeah, it can be difficult. There's so many options out there now. Sure. It's, I feel like, and and we have the internet, which enables us to find stuff out really quickly. It's like, where can I buy tofu? You know, you can buy it online these days. We have um, the ability to do that. And most people live within walking or driving distance of a major supermarket. The options now in most major retailers are really bountiful. Obviously, there's been, and I think we might we might get into this, there's been a little bit of a decline in the faux meat replaces.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, let's talk about that.
Sophie: The vegan burgers, the vegan sausages. God, there was a big boom, wasn't there?
Dr Rupy: There was a huge boom, a lot of investment as well.
Sophie: Yeah, there was. And it turns out it's just not what consumers want, you know. Like there's obviously there's this big conversation around UPF now, ultra processed foods. Um, which unfortunately, a lot of vegan products do fall into because they're not single ingredient, but that doesn't mean that they're they're ridiculously unhealthy. There's definitely some good options on the market. There was just way too many. And you know, a lot of these products, um, have quite a lot of sodium in them. Don't get me wrong, some of them are good. Some of them are really good. They have their place, they're just not for everyday consumption.
Dr Rupy: Yeah.
Sophie: I think that's why you've seen that drop off in it. People are interested in whole foods now. There's um, you know, like I think teaching people how to cook at home with real food sources, with whole foods, with single ingredients, with beans, with legumes, with tofu, with lentils, like all of this delicious plant protein sources that we have and making them into quick recipes. That's my whole philosophy. It's like, how can I take these things and make something delicious in 15 minutes, in half an hour, when I've had a busy day at work and I want to feel better. Um, but I don't really have the time. And that's kind of why I do what I do. That's my mission to to help that, to help people live healthier, happier life.
Dr Rupy: And you do that so well, like with the recipes and you know, we've just done a couple today and they are delicious, genuinely, and they are easy to put together as well. Let's talk through some of your go-to plant-based protein options. And I'm also glad we're talking about the protein conversation in general actually, because there is this idea, well, it's not an idea, it's the guidance of 0.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight, which I think is horrendously low. It's based on outdated nitrogen balance studies. And the newer studies actually show that we actually need more. Those nitrogen balance studies don't reflect flux of protein. So even if you are in protein balance, it doesn't necessarily mean that that is optimal for your body. We don't need to go into that if if you don't want to, but um, overall, my opinion is that we should be eating at least 50% more above the RDA.
Sophie: Love to hear you say that. Yeah. Okay.
Dr Rupy: Good. Um, yeah, I just think like if you look at the research, everything is pointing towards a minimum of 1.2 grams per kilogram of body weight and that's accentuated by um, if you are older in in your age category, in uh, if you're female, particularly if you are breastfeeding or pregnant, your protein requirements exceed that even more so. And it is possible on a plant-based diet. I want to accentuate that as well. It requires a bit of thinking and you know, some of the concepts that you put into your book like protein layering, really, really great. Um, so with that sort of preface, why don't we go into some of your go-to plant-based proteins that you eat or look for every week and how you might use them as well? Because I think a lot of people would be uh, surprised, let's say, not surprised, but like, you know, they'd be interested in in knowing what to look for in the supermarkets.
Sophie: Yeah, so I guess we'll do a weekly haul.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, let's do it.
Sophie: So I pretend I've got my shopping bag here. I'm going to take everything out. Okay. So first of all, I would definitely pick up um, two or three blocks of extra firm tofu. Okay. So versatile, so easy. You can make it taste good. Trust me, you can make it taste good.
Dr Rupy: Okay.
Sophie: You know, you well, actually, we were eating it raw earlier.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah, we were eating it raw, but it was a smoke variety, right?
Sophie: It was a smoke variety. So if you can, I usually get two blocks of smoke, two blocks of naked.
Dr Rupy: Okay. Yeah.
Sophie: Plain tofu. But making sure it's extra firm because the firmer the tofu, the more protein it has, it's more condensed. So
Dr Rupy: Similar to yogurt. I know you don't eat yogurt, but like similar in concept. So like a a hung yogurt or or a a Greek yogurt is going to be more concentrated. So it's a similar um, concept, right?
Sophie: Yeah, exactly. Well, you can get soy Greek yogurts now.
Dr Rupy: Oh, really? You can get soy Greek?
Sophie: Yeah, there's a there's a really good brand. I'll tell you about afterwards, but it's pure soy Greek style yogurt, full of protein, delicious, really creamy.
Dr Rupy: Okay.
Sophie: Okay. Really, really nice. So extra firm tofu, got it in my bag. We're going to put yogurt on there because we've just spoken about yogurt. I'd definitely pick up a couple of those tubs of yogurt, just the soy yogurt. Always soy milk. So I usually in the morning I'll have an oat milk flat white just because of the taste.
Dr Rupy: Luxury.
Sophie: And also also like I I use a fortified milk.
Dr Rupy: Okay.
Sophie: Uh, so that's important for me because it's fortified with calcium and iodine.
Dr Rupy: Mhm.
Sophie: And B12 as well. So I'll pick up a couple of cartons of those and then I'll also pick up soy milk, which I use in my protein shakes. So one cup of soy milk has got around seven to eight grams of protein.
Dr Rupy: Man, I need to start eating having soy milk in my protein shakes because my wife uses almond. Um, it's like the three ingredient almond one. It's not bad. The flavour's not bad, but it's definitely it's not that high in protein compared to soy. Soy is much higher. I think soy is the highest out of all the plant-based milks, right?
Sophie: It is, yeah. Yeah. It's got a favourable, you know, macronutrient profile. It's less carbs.
Dr Rupy: Okay.
Sophie: Um, oat milk, don't have an issue with it, but it's not something that I would consume for for, you know, throughout the day.
Dr Rupy: Sure.
Sophie: I'll have it for one coffee. Um,
Dr Rupy: That's like my indulgence, like a bit of like oat milk. I know it's like ultra processed and it's got all these fillers in and all the rest of it, but like from a flavour point of view, like I tend to go for that if I want something that's not got dairy in or whatever.
Sophie: Of course, and ultra processed itself, we can get onto this, but there's so much there's so much nuance around it.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, there is. And actually, no, so you you mentioned earlier on these these plant-based faux meats. So I I think they do have a place in a vegan diet. I think people deserve to indulge every now and then and have like, maybe the flavour if they've eaten meat before and they want to remember or enjoy that flavour every now and then, they definitely have a place. Those kind of products, a lot of them are ultra processed and I would say don't rely on those as your daily staple. But then in terms of processing, like you could argue that marinated tofu, something that I do have in my weekly shopping basket is also processed, potentially ultra processed because of the flavours and all the rest of it. So I think just because it meets that Nova classification, doesn't necessarily mean it's bad for you. There is nuance around this classification. It's more of a guide rather than a rule. And that I think is sometimes quite hard for for people to get their head around.
Sophie: It's oversimplified.
Dr Rupy: Sure.
Sophie: Isn't it? And it's easy for people to just point on something and go, that's ultra processed, I'm not having it. But actually, you know, let's take the example of, you know, that that barista oat milk. Being fortified with those extra vitamins and minerals is important for me in my diet. You know, and if I'm not, if I forget to take my multivitamin for whatever reason, then at least I've got that. I've had that in my coffee, you know. So I do think it, yeah, I I tend to disregard it when it comes to things like plant-based milks and protein powders, which we can talk about. But I want to finish the haul because some people might be thinking, all she's said is soy. You're right. And we just spoke about how we can have other protein dense sources that don't contain soy.
Dr Rupy: Okay.
Sophie: So then I would head over to the tins and cans aisle. This is also quite contentious because people tend to think that anything that comes in a can is also ultra processed, but it's not. It's just been cooked, you know. So it's basically water, sometimes a little bit of salt and the legume itself. So it doesn't count as ultra processed. It's healthy. Don't need to worry about it. If you're really worried, you can get organic BPA free tins.
Dr Rupy: Or jars.
Sophie: Yeah, or jars. Yeah, there's those delicious.
Dr Rupy: Yeah.
Sophie: High, you know, like
Dr Rupy: Everyone knows what we're talking about.
Sophie: High quality beans. They are the best. They're just amazing. So I'll pick up a few of those. I'll pick up a few of those jars if I'm feeling like I wanted to treat myself, but you can also get really cost effective um, canned beans if you want to do that. From, I mean, there's a big supermarket in the UK that does little cartons of them for about 49p. You know, and they're organic and I just stock up on those. That's great. So I just chuck them into anything I want. Pasta sauces, bean bowls, stews, lasagnas. Um, and I'll pick up some pouches of lentils as well, some ready cooked lentils because we're all short on time. We want to, we don't want to be cooking lentils for for hours. We don't want to be soaking things. I just find it easy to pop those things in. But if you are somebody that prefers to cook from scratch, a really good way of doing it is going to a scoop and way and, you know, picking up um, a large amount of dried beans or dried lentils. So that would be my stop there. And then I'll head over and I'll get myself some carbohydrates, things like pastas, whole grain pastas. I'll particularly look for legume pastas. So they are a great staple. They're, you know, we probably have them once or twice a week, maybe more.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, same.
Sophie: Really, really delicious, full of fibre. Um, just make sure you look at the back of the packet because some of them aren't 100% legume pastas. Um, and then I'll pick up some buckwheat noodles. So buckwheat, really good source of plant-based protein. Also comes packaged up with lots of complex carbohydrates as well. So it's going to keep you full for longer. It's going to keep you satiated. It's going to keep you full of energy. Um, and then from there, I'll probably head over and I'll get some things like nuts and seeds. So I'll pick up usually some almonds, some cashews. I love making things like cashew cream and cashew palm. They can really add something to a recipe. And two of those recipes are in my protein layering concept. You can drizzle cashew cream in pretty much anything. You can put it in like, you can thin it out with a bit of soy milk and make it into a bechamel for a lasagna. Really, really nice.
Dr Rupy: I've tried that. It's really good, isn't it?
Sophie: Really nice. Yeah. And packed with protein, packed with healthy fats. And then you can do things like pop a couple of tablespoons into a bean bowl. Um, and they are just delicious. They're probably one of my signature recipes. Really, really simple. You just grab a can of beans. If you want to drain them, drain them. Some people don't like having the bean water because it can disrupt the gut a little bit if you're not used to it. So rinse the beans, whatever, and then you can always add some stock if you want to do that. And then pop a couple of tablespoons of that cashew cream in. So that's nuts and seeds. And I'll always get like a a few bags of mixed nuts as well. You can get, you know, mixed nuts like goji, sunflower, pumpkin seeds, all in one bag. And then I will either roast them up with a little bit of tamari or soy sauce and put them on top of meals. Or I will put them on top of my porridge in the morning. You know, and that's going to give me three extra plant points, a load of vitamins and minerals, a load of fibre. Um, so, so, so good for you. Um, so that's the kind of nuts and seeds part. And then also, oh, we have a penchant for peanut butter.
Dr Rupy: Okay, yeah, yeah, nice.
Sophie: We love, we we eat it by the kilogram.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, we do as well. It's a lot. We have a lot. Yeah. How much do you go through in a week?
Sophie: Oh, we go through at least uh, between me and my wife, I would say definitely a kilogram. Don't forget that my dog loves peanut butter as well. So she has a bit. She like we put it on a licky mat and it's like a way of like her calming her down. And um, yeah, we have different types of nut butters as well. I've really been getting into pumpkin seed butter. I don't know if you've used that before. It's it's very bitter. There's a brand, I'm not sponsored by them, but um, there's a brand called, I think they're called Sun and Seed or something like that. And they have these really bougie nuts and seeds that you can buy online. And um, I tried the pumpkin seed one because I think I saw it in a whole foods or something. And uh, it was super bitter. So it's not one that you can like just spread on toast, but if you kind of use it like tahini, which also has that bitter note as well, um, you can make a sauce out of it, like a pumpkin seed pesto type situation with like, you know, raw garlic and olive oil and just like thin it out a bit with a bit of hot water maybe. And um, pumpkin seed is ridiculously high in protein.
Sophie: It is.
Dr Rupy: Really high in protein.
Sophie: I actually, do you know what? I've got the table in my book.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, I think it's like 28 grams per, I'll find it. 100 grams or something. It's strangely high in protein. And actually, when you when you look at some of these, um, these uh, these numbers, it's uh, it yeah, it is pretty insane. I love it.
Sophie: So pumpkin seeds per 100 grams, 24.4 grams of protein.
Dr Rupy: I was off by four. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sophie: Sunflower seeds, 19.8.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, sunflower seeds is another one as well. Actually, I was going to, this brings me on to another question. Oh, sorry, have we done your haul? Because legume pasta is definitely on my list as well. I do love legume pastas.
Sophie: We're almost done with my haul. We're going to go to the frozen section quickly.
Dr Rupy: Oh, okay, let's go there.
Sophie: Yeah, and we're going to pick up some frozen edamame beans and some frozen peas. That's always a winner. Um, and I think that's pretty much it.
Dr Rupy: This is basically my, this is basically my shopping list.
Sophie: Oh, I forgot one thing, nutritional yeast.
Dr Rupy: Nuch, yeah, yeah, yeah, got you. I actually put nuch on the list. I thought you'd already said it. But when you said cashew palm, I was like, ah, I bet you're using nuch for. So talk to us about nuch, uh, because if people haven't heard of nutritional yeast before or how to use it, it may not have gone anywhere near their basket.
Sophie: Yeah, true. Well, you have to hunt it down in the supermarket. Oh, really? Yeah. Sometimes it's in the weirdest places and I have to ask somebody.
Dr Rupy: I find it near the stock, the stock cubes for some reason. I think it's like, you know, like vegan bullion and stuff, so.
Sophie: Yeah, sometimes it's in the gluten-free section. Um, it's funny, my my partner's mum went into Waitrose the other day and she goes to to one of the guys, where's the nuch? And she was saying it for ages, like he just did not understand. She's like, I need to find the nuch. Because I think we were staying at that point, which she would always pick some up for me, which is very nice of her. And he was like, what? He did not, he just, so okay, so nuch, nutritional yeast. Nuch is kind of slang um, for nutritional yeast. Uh, it's not the actual name. You will confuse people in the shop if you go and ask them for nuch. So make sure you say nutritional yeast. Um, but it's great. It has like a nutty, umami flavour. It looks a bit weird. It looks like fish food.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, like flakes.
Sophie: Don't feed it to the fish though. I haven't tried it, but I wouldn't recommend.
Dr Rupy: Wouldn't recommend.
Sophie: Um, and it's really delicious. It's super versatile. I I sometimes refer it to it as savoury protein powder.
Dr Rupy: Ah, interesting.
Sophie: Just a caveat, it's inactive yeast. I did have one commenter on social media that said it gives me a yeast infection.
Dr Rupy: Oh, wow, okay. Which was, which wasn't true.
Sophie: No. I had to say, I don't think that's from the nutritional yeast. No. Um, but I'm sorry to hear it. Uh, but yeah, I kind of refer to it as a as savoury protein powder and you can sprinkle it onto anything. You can put it in sauces, you can blend it in things. Um, cashew palm, really simple recipe. In a blender, you just pulse up half and half cashew dry cashew nuts with nutritional yeast, a little bit of salt and garlic powder. You've got yourself a delicious parmesan.
Dr Rupy: Nice.
Sophie: You can put that on soup, you can put it in sandwiches if you want to, you can put it on anything, any kind of stew, any kind of thing that needs like a little something something.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sophie: It's my go-to pastas. I smother it.
Dr Rupy: Yeah.
Sophie: Like my pastas are covered in cashew palm.
Dr Rupy: And it's great because like, you know, every tablespoon or so, you're adding like two to three grams of protein here and there. So it quickly, it quickly adds up and this sort of leans into some of the the protein layering concepts that you're talking about with just adding multiple different types of these proteins so you get a more complete uh, profile of protein and also a greater quantity of protein as well per meal that you consume.
Sophie: Yeah, absolutely. So it's 50% protein. Yeah. So it's really good. Per teaspoon, it is about three grams.
Dr Rupy: Oh, there you go.
Sophie: So it it's it's just a great way to if you're looking, so for example, if you want to swap out a bit of tofu and you want to swap it for any legume tofu or you want to swap it for Satan, that's probably one thing that I forgot to mention. It's Satan can be a great swap for tofu. It has a really, really strong amino acid profile as well.
Dr Rupy: As long as you can tolerate gluten because that's a like concentrated gluten protein, right?
Sophie: Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. Um, I've lost my train of thought there.
Dr Rupy: Oh, we're in the frozen aisle. So edamame, peas, uh, we've got the nuch and is this your haul?
Sophie: Yes, and brown rice.
Dr Rupy: And brown rice. Okay, fine. Yeah, yeah. So so that would be with the buckwheat noodles. So this is like naturally um, pretty gluten-free, I would say, unless you're getting some like nice sourdough from the baker or whatever.
Sophie: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm not going to lie. That's a huge thing we've we've we've left out. Yeah, it has to be sourdough. Um, get that from an artisanal shop nowadays.
Dr Rupy: How how much do you spend roughly on your shop? It's going to be hard for you to answer this because obviously you're a a recipe creator. So a lot of what you spend every single week is going to be on food. But
Sophie: You must know this.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, I do. What um, what one of the big sort of pushbacks that we get is the cost of plant-based eating. Now, I personally think that you can do plant-based eating very, very cheaply. Um, but particularly when animal-based products are subsidized quite heavily and there are a lot of cheap options for for animal-based for animal proteins. I and and people lack the ingenuity. I can see why this is kind of uh, a thought that people have that plant-based eating is expensive.
Sophie: So I would say the tofu is far cheaper than any, if you're looking at getting like a, a lot of people talk about grass-fed meat being the superior option or, you know, there's this trend at the moment for like raw milk and raw dairy, which um, would be a little bit more pricey. Um, I think definitely when it comes to plant-based milks, they can be a little bit more pricey, but I think in terms of like the very basic staples, your Satan and your tofu and also your legumes in their raw forms are on average a lot cheaper, especially if you're going to go to somewhere like a scoop and way. Yeah. And you're going to stock up on all those dried bits and you're going to batch cook. Batch cooking is a really, really good hack for saving you a lot of money. When I was a student, I used to batch cook everything. When I first moved to London, it saved me. Yeah. Um, so actually I disagree with that. I think sometimes it can come across as being more expensive because these meat alternatives can be quite pricey.
Dr Rupy: They can be. Yeah.
Sophie: If you look at the price of a Beyond Burger, it can be almost the same as like a kind of like a grass-fed steak burger.
Dr Rupy: Isn't that crazy? But why is that?
Sophie: I'm not too sure. I'm not too sure. I think it's obviously all the R&D that that goes into making these products.
Dr Rupy: I have a theory that it's also the psychology. So if you are purchasing something that is priced similarly to a beef patty, you equate the sort of nutritional profile or the prestige of the product. I'm not too sure, but like maybe maybe a a sort of more pragmatic answer is the fact that they've spent so much money in R&D to get the the flavour and everything. Um, but yeah, I've always that's always perplexed me.
Sophie: Yeah, I think they really went down that route of trying to produce like a fat analogue. Yeah. Because truth be told, I actually worked with a plant-based meat company.
Dr Rupy: Okay.
Sophie: Um, not from my page. This is before I was doing So Spun Kitchen. And there was a hell of a lot of R&D work into getting the fat analogue perfect. So you know, when you cut, I think there was very much a craze, this was probably about eight or nine years ago now, and it was like you have to have like the a meat mimic. It has to look like meat. There was all this craze around like a bleeding burger.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah, I remember that.
Sophie: And I used to be like, I couldn't think of anything worse personally. This is coming from someone that's never eaten meat. So I never had the desire to mimic something. I do get there there is definitely a purpose to it. It's basically to to help people choose plant-based over meat if they didn't want to eat the animal. Okay. Or and it's much it's far more environmentally friendly to eat a plant-based burger. That's two really important things we should cover here. It's always, always going to be better for the environment and better for the animals. And in some cases, there are some products that could be advantageous for your health. There's actually a study that came out recently comparing plant-based meat to animal meat. And there was so in some cases, it was healthier and it had better outcomes for cardiovascular disease.
Dr Rupy: What was the animal-based meat that they used?
Sophie: I'll have to find it for you. We can leave it in the notes. Okay. Um, but it was done by Dr. Matthew Nagra was one of the people who officiated the study.
Dr Rupy: Okay.
Sophie: Um, I'm not too sure on the parameters. I'll have to delve into it a bit more with you and
Dr Rupy: Okay. We'll stick it in for people to have a look at.
Sophie: But it is really important and it's really important to cover that it's not just, I don't think we should kind of poo poo plant-based meat options so much. They definitely have a place. People still enjoy them. It's nice, especially if you're going for a night out with your friends. Yeah. And let's say you're going to um, a burger bar and you you don't want to be left out or something like that. It's nice to have that. It's nice to have that option. There's a place, but they're just just not every day, like we were saying.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think um, sometimes the pendulum can swing the other way as well against animal-based proteins. And just to sort of take the other side slightly, whilst I am a plant forward eater, lean animal-based proteins in the context of a healthy diet, I don't think can be sneered at. And I think whilst there's definitely arguments for the environment and there's definitely arguments from a morality perspective and ethics and a whole bunch of arguments for plant-based eating solely, I think there is a bit of a stigma being attached to animal-based uh, uh, proteins that is pushing people to be even more antagonistic, which is why I think we're seeing the rise of carnivore diets and keto and all the rest of it.
Sophie: We're here, are we?
Dr Rupy: Yeah, I know. I really feel like this is what is pushing people more towards the other side because they don't feel that they can um, eat animal-based foods without judgment. Do you see what I mean?
Sophie: It's a difficult one. Yeah. It's a difficult one because the science is there and I I understand because if you've grown up eating meat and it's been a big part of your culture and it's a way that you have bonded with family or something, you know, like sharing a meal is very integral to who we are as people, isn't it? What we cook is it's a huge identity piece, isn't it? So if somebody's kind of coming at you and saying, uh, what you're doing is wrong and you should probably do this, like you might get slightly defensive. Um, you know, and then decide to dig your heels in and like you were saying, the pendulum swing and kind of go the other way and try and throw it back on that person, try and throw the dirt back on that person, which is what we see with a lot of this vegan versus carnivore um, trend at the moment.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah. And I and I think I think there's a healthy balance where people can accept, and I think we should all be able to accept that you can be absolutely healthy on a plant-based diet and have enough protein and have enough to sustain your needs more so and live a really healthy life that lowers your cholesterol, lowers your risk of disease, etc, etc. In the same breath as saying, you can have equally a healthy diet that has some animal-based proteins in that is lean in addition to all the plants and and all the other benefits that plants are giving you as well. I think there's a healthy balance between the two and I think that gets lost.
Sophie: For sure, there is a healthy balance, but everybody would benefit from having more of their calories and more of their energy from plant sources. I have a few studies actually, um, that go into that. But I think one of the most important things that, you know, if listeners are looking to to reduce to get the benefits of plant protein is like, what are you swapping it for? Anything that's processed meat and red meat would be benefited from swapping to plant protein sources. Processed meat is often the meat that's the cheapest as well. Yeah. So that's where you're going to fall into some issues. It's, you know, it's it's not great. Um, and it causes a lot of health problems. But if we're talking about the health effects of kind of swapping a small amount of calories from animal to plant protein, there is, this is a a study called the dietary intake of total animal and plant protein and risk of all cause cardiovascular and cancer mortality. This is a systematic review, dose response meta-analysis. And they looked at 31 cohorts. So it's a huge data pool. It's around 700,000 participants. And during this follow-up period, it was a 30-year follow-up. So it's a huge study, long-term study. Yeah. Um, so 100,000 of these people died and they compared those consuming the highest to the lowest total plant protein, plant protein and animal protein separately. They found that those consuming the highest plant protein or total protein had a lower risk of all cause mortality and that showcases the importance particularly when it comes from plant sources. And they did a dose response, okay, so they looked at how much protein you would need to have from plants in order to have some sort of benefit. And just 3% of your energy change from animal to plant protein lowered your risk of all cause mortality by 5%.
Dr Rupy: Yeah.
Sophie: So it's a tiny, it's a tiny change. It's a huge opportunity for people. Imagine if you increase it a little bit more.
Dr Rupy: Yeah.
Sophie: You know what I mean? There's huge opportunities to be gained. It's all on the table here.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah. I I know the study and it's something that I've put in my book as well, which is why we're we're, you know, a fan of putting more plants onto plant-based proteins onto people's plates. I do think there is nuance within these big systematic reviews to be had because whilst it is great that we have these large cohort studies with 700,000 plus people, it's still on the lower side of the hierarchy of evidence in the grand scheme of things because within nutritional science, we're sort of handcuffed by these kind of studies that actually don't offer the detail that we we really need when we're speaking to an individual. And actually, when you dig down into individual diets, some people would still benefit from having some animal-based proteins in their diet for the reasons that we've already discussed. I know we've we've sort of debunked the wider um, issues with saying that all plant-based proteins are um, inferior. Um, but I I think when we when we're held by those studies alone, no matter the size and and sort of like the grandeur around them, I think we we still need to have a new conversation around those. So whilst I I am a fan of like, you know, replacing and adding, I don't think it's like, okay, the more we do, we get those incremental 5%, 5% benefits every every time we we remove something. Do you see what I mean?
Sophie: Yeah, I do see what you mean. I do and like I said, I don't think that, you know, people should be getting 100% of their protein from plant-based sources. It has to be convenient, it has to work for them. Yeah. At the end of the day, you're absolutely right. There's so much nuance, especially when it comes down to an individual level. Um, and I wouldn't know too much about that, you know, I'm not like a, I'm not a doctor, I'm not a nutritional scientist. I look at the data and I what I do is I try to find the most reliable studies, the most long-term, and then see how that correlates with other long-term evidence over time. And that's how I kind of draw my picture of it. I'm open to being proven wrong, of course. Um, but I do think that, like I'm just going to, because they they have, they hold more validity if obviously if it's backed up by like long-term observational research and
Dr Rupy: I think it definitely adds to the weight of evidence for sure. Like the observational nature of a lot of these studies definitely adds weight, but because they're observational in nature, it negates the um,
Sophie: It's backed up by clinical trials as well.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But but it's it's it's very hard to conduct these long-term clinical trials with diet in the first place. They're they're many of them last for like, you know, if you're lucky to get like 12 weeks. And even 12 weeks, I mean, how much can you do in 12 weeks? And so then it really comes down to a combination of all these different things. And look, you can prove anything either way, which is why the keto community can say, look, these folks went on keto, their cholesterol went down, they lost a bunch of weight, they felt better. Well, that's because they were probably on a low calorie diet doing keto. Anything that's low calorie is going to drop your, it's going to drop your cholesterol, it's going to it's going to improve all your markers over 12 weeks. Let's see how they're doing in 12 years. It's going to be a different picture because of the saturated fat they're consuming over time that impacts your insulin signalling mechanisms. It's going to impact your liver with fat, potentially, you know, for certain people, they might have genetic profiles that actually protect them against excess saturated fat. We're all very, very different.
Sophie: We are very, very different.
Dr Rupy: And this is this is something I I want to I want people to ensure that they get the nuance because it's very easy to be swayed by these really big studies and say, that is the answer, 100%, that is what everyone should be doing.
Sophie: No, no, no, of course. I I wouldn't ever hang my hat on one study. There's like, I I have a bunch of studies.
Dr Rupy: Sure, sure, sure. I I and I agree. I think like that's generally the trend, um, and and why I'm a fan of getting more plant-based proteins in people's diet. But I don't want people to think, okay, this is the only way and this is the the thing that we should be advising everyone to do.
Sophie: I think getting more plant protein in your diet.
Dr Rupy: It's undeniable. Yeah, yeah, of course.
Sophie: Moving the needle away from processed meats, from red meats into more plant sources is where you want people to be. I don't think either of I think we both agree on that.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah. I I would agree on that. I would say there's nuance with the red meat conversation as well. I'm saying this as someone who doesn't eat that much red meat at all. Um, I think there's still nuance within the red meat conversation as well. As as much as it pains me to say this and to be contrarian, there are a lot of people involved in the studies that have suggested the carcinogenic uh, issues with red meat that have said that it's uh, the way you collect the data is you're lumping together processed meats and red meat together. And actually, when you uh, account for healthy behaviours, uh, the the the detrimental effects of red meat consumption tend to fade away. Again, this is observational in nature. So it's very hard to have a nuance conversation about this.
Sophie: I'd love to see that study.
Dr Rupy: It's the it's the studies that have been touted as saying red meat is is carcinogenic. There are mechanistic studies, absolutely, that show that uh, red meat is carcinogenic. Obviously, it doesn't have the fibre, obviously, it doesn't have all the other things. In combination, if you're having a little bit of lean red meat in your diet with plant-based proteins, nuts, seeds, edamame, etc, etc, is it still carcinogenic? I don't think so.
Sophie: But of course, it's the dose that makes the poison. Somebody's somebody's having a very small amount of it, but I wouldn't get the majority of your protein from red meat.
Dr Rupy: No, no, no. I wouldn't suggest that either. I think diversity is key. Um, but yeah, we we're actually having the the the uh, researcher on on that. And to their credit, whole foods, plant-based, non-tropical oils, these are the literal messages that they're saying in the same breath as red meat actually might not be that bad for us.
Sophie: Of course, and we're always finding out new things. Yeah. But I would I'd be really interested to see if you you say you've got someone coming on.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're going to speak to that researcher. Um, let let's move on to protein powders. Uh, because protein powders seem to be the go-to for folks who are worried about their protein consumption on vegan diets. And you mentioned some some of these blends that you're a fan of.
Sophie: Yeah, I love protein powders. I don't see an issue with them at all. I think they can be a part of a healthy balanced diet. Uh-huh. Um, obviously you don't want to just be relying on protein powders to get your protein intake every day. Uh, but they can be a really useful tool, especially for people who are looking to manage weight and optimize body composition. Mhm. Um, if you look for one that has minimal added extras, minimal fillers, emulsifiers, sweeteners, things like that. Um, keep it to a minimum. I know you like unflavoured protein.
Dr Rupy: I go for unflavoured, yeah.
Sophie: Yeah.
Dr Rupy: Because those tend to be the ones that don't have the fillers and additives and gums and all the rest of it. So, but I always make my sort of, I always make it like protein powder, I never have on its own. I generally blend like banana or berry or nut butter or whatever it might be in there.
Sophie: Make it into a whole meal.
Dr Rupy: Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sophie: I have that under a meal personally.
Dr Rupy: So so what is a what is the sort of ingredient of protein powder that you go you go for?
Sophie: So mine is a blend of pea, brown rice, soy, um, and I think hemp. Um, if I remember correctly, but in the past I've used like yellow pea, which is actually really nice. Um, and I've used just pure hemp protein powder before, which is just disgusting.
Dr Rupy: Oh, really? Just pure hemp? I've never tried that.
Sophie: You mix it into a drink and it looks like something that you would scoop out of Shrek's swamp. Oh, no. But, you know, um,
Dr Rupy: But it's really high in protein.
Sophie: It's actually what I used to do. I used to have like this is back in my um, kind of exercise or you know, slightly disordered eating days where I used to just have like black coffee and a hemp protein shake for breakfast, which I would not advise to do. It was awful. And it was really not good. But now I have like, I don't know if you saw the other day, post my protein oats recipe.
Dr Rupy: Okay.
Sophie: Um, so I make a, so I have this salted, oh God, it's delicious. It's, well, it's form nutrition. It's salted chocolate caramel flavour, which I mix with um, the performance protein, which has a better leucine profile, isoleucine profile. So I put one tablespoon of that, one tablespoon of the other, and I mix that with some soy milk, a little bit of ice. And then I will soak some oats with some chia seeds, um, in hot water whilst I'm making that. And then I pour that over, and then I sprinkle a few nuts, flax seeds, everything over the top there. So good, delicious. It's got everything you need in there. And honestly, it's about, I think there was about in the portion that I made, which was quite large, there was 58 grams of protein in there.
Dr Rupy: Mhm.
Sophie: But usually it's about 50. Yeah.
Dr Rupy: 50 grams?
Sophie: Yeah, yeah.
Dr Rupy: Wow.
Sophie: If you think about it, so so you've got um, say 30 grams of protein from two heat tablespoons of protein powder. And then you've got a tablespoon of cacao, which also has quite a fair whack of protein.
Dr Rupy: Yes, it does. Yeah, yeah. Oh, cacao's on my shopping list, by the way. But that's not a weekly thing. It's more of like a, yeah, like two weekly thing.
Sophie: Yeah, replenish. Yeah, yeah. Uh, flax seeds, so there's a fair bit of protein in there. Chia seeds, great omega-3s as well. Uh, oats, also some protein in there. Um, and then all the seeds on top, a little bit of peanut butter or almond butter. Um, and yeah, that kind of makes it up to, obviously you're remembering you're blending the protein, the protein powder with soy milk. So that adds another eight grams.
Dr Rupy: Yeah.
Sophie: So it really adds up. Um, and it's a good, it can kind of wipe out half of your protein target for the whole day.
Dr Rupy: Yeah.
Sophie: Um, which takes the pressure off, you know.
Dr Rupy: This is why I'm a really big fan of getting protein in at breakfast because if your total protein target is pretty high, and for me it's pretty high. I mean, like I'm about uh, 75 kilos, my target is going to be like 1.6. So I need to hit quite big numbers. If I
Sophie: You're training?
Dr Rupy: I am training. I'm trying to with a newborn, trying. It's really tough to get to the gym. But um, but yeah, like I I tend to pre pre-baby, five to six times a week, a mixture of uh, weight training two to three times a week and then the rest is cardio and hit. Um, with a rest day. Um, but
Sophie: Nice.
Dr Rupy: But yeah, like I
Sophie: Hybrid trainer.
Dr Rupy: Huh?
Sophie: You can do a Hyrox.
Dr Rupy: I yeah, I would love to do a Hyrox. I mean, I'm doing a duathlon. I told you about that earlier. Yeah, yeah. But um, you know what I'm really trying to do at the moment? Um, I want to do a Murph. Do you know what a Murph is? It's a CrossFit thing.
Sophie: Enlighten me.
Dr Rupy: So a Murph is a mile run, 300 air squats, 200 press-ups, 100 pull-ups, and then another mile run.
Sophie: Nice.
Dr Rupy: And uh, and a good score is under 45 minutes and it's done with a weighted vest. So it's pretty intense. And I'm nowhere near that target at the moment. I'm doing it unweighted, but I got myself a Murph vest and I want to try and get it under 40 minutes by the time I'm 40. I'm turning 40 this year.
Sophie: You can do that.
Dr Rupy: So I'm really trying and and like that breakfast, I'm definitely going to start using because that's 50 grams right there. And I'm I'm aiming to get well over 120 grams every day. So that's yeah, that's and from whole food sources.
Sophie: Yeah, exactly. Front load it.
Dr Rupy: Nice.
Sophie: You can use it unflavoured in that as well because the flavour of the cacao will carry it and the peanut butter. So you won't have to worry about it tasting bad or anything. But yeah, front loading protein is a great way to do it, especially if you've got a target like yours where it's quite big. There's a there's a myth that well that keeps perpetrating social media and everywhere I go. Can your body absorb more than 30 grams of protein in one sitting, which of course has been debunked. Um, but you know, people still believe it. Your body absorbs the amount of protein that you need. Um, and there was some literature to suggest that you should split that up with kind of four, four or five meals, the classic bodybuilder myth. But now that has been debunked as well. You know, if you you need a certain amount of protein a day, if you get that mostly in the morning, that's okay. You know.
Dr Rupy: Great. Okay. So big fan of front loading protein. Um, in terms of what you recommend for building muscle. And maybe you should talk a little bit about building muscle in general. Why is why are you an advocate for this? Why is it important for women of all ages to train?
Sophie: Yeah, so I mean, our bodies, we have a lot of muscle in our bodies. Our skeletal muscle health in general is a is a great predictor of our overall health. Um, as we age, from about the age of 30, we we do get, you know, we lose a percentage of muscle mass every single year. Um, and if we're not resistance training, if we're not taking care of that muscle, that skeletal muscle, of our metabolic health, etc, etc, it will decline and we could end up in a situation where we are at risk of disease or we lose our independence as we age. And of course, we don't want to do that, you know. And there's also there's a lot of other things that resistance training isn't just to isn't just for health. It can also be a great social activity. It's great for mental health. It's great for confidence. Um, it's a great activity to and it's a great hobby to include in your life. And I absolutely love it and I advocate it for every single person I meet if possible. Yeah. Um, my mum was not keen for a while, but she she used to see me lifting in the gym. She'd go, oh, your back's hurting. Oh my god. She couldn't watch anything. She thought my back was going to snap in half or something. Um, and I said to her, no, no, no, this is actually this is protecting me. It's not putting me at risk. And it's funny because a couple of years ago, she she started suffering from low back problems. Okay. Um, she was very stiff. And I said to her, she lives in Dorset, so I can't I can't see her very often. So I said, you should get yourself a personal trainer. Um, I'll help you find someone. So I sent her a few people. She was very skeptical at first and it took her quite a while. She did a couple of sessions with people and didn't continue it. You know, I kept badgering her and badgering her and badgering her because the problem kept getting worse. And I think she was just kind of at her wits end at the end of it. Anyway, she she's uh, now working with this personal trainer who is working on strengthening her her abs, her legs, her back, which of course helps to take any of the pressure off her low back. And of course, if you are practicing resistance training and she does quite a lot of it at home as well. She does, you know, you can get a really positive benefits if you're just training at home as well. But she trains with her in the gym and now she's lifting weights and her her back is no longer sore. She doesn't experience pain. There you go. It's so, so, so important. You know, she's got two younger kids. Um, and she needs to be mobile. She needs to be able to help and care for them and also enjoy her own life as well. She loves walking and it was getting in the way of doing that. So if you don't take care of your muscle, it can really start to affect so many areas of your life very, very quickly. Um, so it's always better to to start when you're younger. It's to start in, you know, I mean, it's it's not never too late to start. You can get, you can grow muscle in your 60s. Yeah. There's a few amazing people on Instagram that I follow, older ladies who have gained a significant amount of muscle mass in their 60s and they're deadlifting more than I can do. No way, really? Yeah, and I think that's absolutely incredible. You can start at any age, but if you start earlier, then you are going to be your baseline is a little bit higher. You know, so you're going to be maintaining that skeletal muscle as you age and then your decline when it if and when it happens will be lower compared to somebody that doesn't train. So we all have, I believe, a responsibility to our our beautiful human bodies to keep them happy and healthy. And the health of our muscles is directly correlated to the health and the happiness that we get out of our lives. Yeah. So I've I'm I'm a huge advocate and I think everybody should be doing it.
Dr Rupy: So, you're awesome. Um, I love your recipes. I love your vibe. I think it's really important for people to have nuanced conversations, even if we we might disagree on a few things. We probably do and that's that's fine. And I think it's really healthy to actually engage in positive, respectful discussion about these different topics because food is so visceral and it's so emotive and it's, you know, more than just nutrition, even though obviously functional nutrition is super important as we both agree on. Um, I thought maybe we should end on things that are really uh, kind of selfish for me actually. So I I'd love your opinion on the three exercises that everyone should learn how to do in terms of uh, weight, whether that be body weight or some sort of resistance training. Um, two snacks and uh, one hack of how you top up protein.
Sophie: Okay, this is going to be tough.
Dr Rupy: Oh, yeah, I know. It's going to be tough. Yeah. You can't just come into here, do the kitchen, eat the food, have a good time with the team. We're going to make you work. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So so is it two or three exercises?
Dr Rupy: Let's go for three. Three exercises that we should all be doing each week, resistance type.
Sophie: So I'm I'm going to think about a full body set of exercises that can be performed without a gym. And I'm going to go for the squat, which can be loaded, of course, but you can start with the body weight squat.
Dr Rupy: Okay.
Sophie: Many variations of the squat. You can also do it unilateral. So one leg and that's going to help balance and stability.
Dr Rupy: Is that like with your your leg behind you or like raised at like a Bulgarian, is that Bulgarian squat?
Sophie: Yeah, or you can do, so I mean, I I can show you if you like.
Dr Rupy: Oh, go on then. So a really good you stand on one leg very carefully and you get your balance. And then you're going to have a chair behind you or some kind of elevated surface. The higher it is, the easier it will be for you to perform this.
Dr Rupy: Okay.
Sophie: And you're going to slowly sit down until your bum touches the seat. Now you can sit down on it if you feel a bit wobbly, or you can make it a bit harder and try and not put all your weight into the seat or the chair and then stand back up again. And what that's going to do, it's a variation of a squat, but it's going to really make you work hard in your core and also you're going to be working hard stabilizing your body weight. So that's a really good exercise. And so squat and a unilateral squat, that's going to count as one.
Dr Rupy: Okay. Okay, so you're doing that.
Sophie: Um, and then what we're going to do, I think would be a press-up.
Dr Rupy: Okay.
Sophie: Because again, core control, press-up is a moving plank. A lot of people do press-ups wrong. Um, I don't want you being on your knees. If you can't do a press-up, get to a wall and then we're going to slowly lower the gradient. So the best way to do this if you can't do a full press-up is to start on a wall and then slowly lower. So you might have like a this table for instance, where again, you can get up and start pressing up like that.
Dr Rupy: Oh, okay, I see. Yeah, yeah.
Sophie: So doing sets of those until you can gradually get right down so you're completely parallel with the floor.
Dr Rupy: Gotcha.
Sophie: And then you if you can do 10 press-ups, 10 body weight press-ups, that's a great marker of health. And then another one I would think would be the pull-up.
Dr Rupy: Okay. So this I'm going to need a bit of equipment at home.
Sophie: Yeah, so exactly. So no, I mean, you can do it, you can get pull-up bars for your house. If you've got a climbing frame close by.
Dr Rupy: Uh-huh.
Sophie: Um, a lot of places have outdoor gyms.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, they do.
Sophie: Definitely in Australia, they do. But I was also running through London Fields the other day and they have lots of these bars.
Dr Rupy: Yeah.
Sophie: And I know they have them in other towns and cities across the UK as well. So definitely, if you see one of them, if you can't do a full pull-up, just hang from the bar for as long as you can. So that's a progression and that's going to train your grip strength. Grip strength is a key indicator of longevity. So hang from that bar for as long as you can, three times.
Dr Rupy: Amazing.
Sophie: And then if that's too easy for you, if you're managing to do a minute and it's easy, I want you to do some scapular press-ups. So you're depressing the scapula. So that's the back of your shoulder blade in layman's terms.
Dr Rupy: Yeah.
Sophie: So you're kind of rising up. It's like you're it's like you're kind of growing a a flower out of your shoulders.
Dr Rupy: Okay.
Sophie: And you do that and you kind of move very, very slightly. That's just basically designed to help you engage your lats and your back muscles so you can kind of progress very, very gradually to a full pull-up. And then once you can do about, I would say, 10 to 12 to 15 of those with good form, then you can start perhaps with a band. You can get these resistance bands, these long ones off um, Amazon and you just kind of feed it through a loop at the top and then you can put one foot in it and you just pull yourself up and you can get the thicker the band, the easier it will be basically. So you start with a thick band and you can work your way down to a thin band. Mhm. Um, and then you'll be able to get rid of the band and just do some negative. So just slowly releasing yourself down. And that can be a really good way because training the negative portion of the muscle is just as good as training as if you were pulling yourself up.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, we don't really do the eccentric as much as the concentric here, do we?
Sophie: Yeah, no, we don't. But it's a great way to train overall strength and you can get great gains from it as well.
Dr Rupy: So make sure you're doing slow movements both ways. It's not all about the force, it's about the the negative as well.
Sophie: Control the movement, control the body. Also very important to keep the core tight when you're doing those types of movements as well. So
Dr Rupy: Okay.
Sophie: That's great.
Dr Rupy: That's great. All right. I'm going to get you to check my form afterwards. Uh, a couple of snacks.
Sophie: Couple of snacks. Okay, are we talking pre-workout or post-workout?
Dr Rupy: Oh, I don't know. You choose. One one pre and one post. How about that?
Sophie: Okay, so I'm going to go with people because a question I always get from people is, I've got no time in the morning. I'm up really early. I have to go straight out the door. I've got work at 9:00. You've got to be at my desk and ready to to work. So I have very, very time poor, don't have time to eat a big breakfast and let it go down before I train. Just grab a piece of fruit or three medjool dates. Just have those before, just get some glycogen in your muscles, just get some sugar in your system, just get some energy.
Dr Rupy: Okay.
Sophie: You know, it's going to be game changing, especially for women. I know a lot of, I don't know if you train fasted.
Dr Rupy: I train fasted, yeah.
Sophie: Oh, yeah. I mean, a lot of men can train fasted. Um,
Dr Rupy: But for women it's it's more difficult, is it?
Sophie: Yeah, I mean, there is some literature that points towards elongating that fast after you've slept and you are still technically in a breakdown state. So if you're trying to build muscle in a breakdown state, then it might not be conductive to positive adaptations. But, you know, this is obviously based on some research and it might not work for everybody.
Dr Rupy: Gotcha. Yeah, yeah, makes sense.
Sophie: Um, so two snacks. So one post-workout.
Dr Rupy: Yeah.
Sophie: So I would probably, I'd probably go for like an oaty banana shake. Let's get those, get those carbs in the system. Very, very important to replenish those lost energy stores and make sure that your body is able to facilitate those adaptations that you've just spent so hard working on because otherwise what's the point of going to the gym? You've got to eat afterwards, you've got to eat afterwards. So I think it doesn't matter so much on on timing. Um, I mean, there's some literature to suggest that women should be eating in the hour after they train, but it's debated.
Dr Rupy: Okay.
Sophie: Um, and for men, you know, I think that can that doesn't matter so much as long as you're getting your protein throughout the day. But I I doubt you're going three hours after a workout and not eating anything.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, I mean, sometimes it can happen, particularly if you've travelled to like a workout, like maybe you've worked out with a friend and you need to get back home and then suddenly it's like two and a half, three hours, you're like, oh gosh, like I really need to eat something. Otherwise I'm going to eat the fridge.
Sophie: Yeah, you feel it, don't you?
Dr Rupy: Yeah. Especially if you've had a tough session.
Sophie: Yeah.
Dr Rupy: And that's actually a nice segue to my next question about a top-up protein snack.
Sophie: I didn't I didn't talk about the post-workout snack.
Dr Rupy: Oh, I thought that was the post-workout snack. Oaty banana.
Sophie: Oh, yeah, yeah, oaty banana. Yeah, yeah. With with some protein powder.
Dr Rupy: With some protein powder. Okay.
Sophie: Whizz that all up.
Dr Rupy: Okay.
Sophie: With some ice cubes. It's really nice, like nice and cold. Especially if you've been hot and sweaty.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, great, great. And yeah, top-up protein snack.
Sophie: Top-up protein snack. Um, I'm going to give what I would eat and then what I would advise. So like, I mean, I don't advise people to do this, but I definitely just go for like sometimes a block of tofu and just eat it.
Dr Rupy: You're going to say that.
Sophie: Yeah, I do. I I think it's delicious. I think, you know, there's nothing wrong with a good block of smoked tofu. Eat it like an apple. Rupy was eating raw tofu earlier, by the way. We have it on camera.
Dr Rupy: Hey, look, I tried it. I go for the really marinated thin one. I don't I don't get the the block of extra firm raw, but yeah, personal preference. Look, no judgment here.
Sophie: But I would say, so in the evening, if I found that like, okay, so for example, last night I went out for a pizza. Um, there weren't very many vegan options on the menu. I had some like uh, this marinara with some other extra bits on top. Yeah. Not very much protein. So I went home and I knew that I was, I just knew that I was below my target. So I whipped myself up a bowl of plant-based yogurt. Um, with a couple of spoonfuls of protein powder in it.
Dr Rupy: Nice.
Sophie: Some water because it gets very thick. So you thin it out a little bit and then I topped it with some some berries and a couple of nuts, like a a nut mix that I was talking about earlier, just kind of sprinkle on.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah.
Sophie: Yeah.
Dr Rupy: I've started whipping um, nut butter into my yogurt with the same sort of like mixed nut mix as well. Um, with like berries or whatever and like dark chocolate always.
Sophie: Dark chocolate.
Dr Rupy: Always, yeah, yeah.
Sophie: Oh, I I do follow it up with some dark chocolate.
Dr Rupy: When do I not follow up anything with dark chocolate? Um, so thank you so much.
Sophie: So good for you. Thank you so much for having me.
Dr Rupy: This is great. This is really, really fun. Really, really fun. And I and and like your recipes are great. Your book's phenomenal. So Spun Kitchen, make sure you go and get it. And um, yeah, I can't wait to see what you come up with next.
Sophie: Thank you so much.
