#49: Overcoming The Odds with Alexandra Adams

Alexandra Adams: because as soon as you see something visible, like a white cane or hearing aids, people just immediately assume that you are incapable.

Dr Rupy: Welcome to the Doctor's Kitchen podcast with me, Dr Rupy, where we discuss the most important topics and concepts in the medicinal qualities of food and lifestyle. My guest today is quite simply one of the most amazing people I've ever had the privilege of meeting. And I've met quite a few in the process of doing this podcast, by my privileged position of meeting patients who inspire me every single day. But Alexandra Adams is a very, very special person. She's a fourth year medical student at Cardiff University and she is the UK's first deaf and blind person training to become a doctor. She's an ex GB athlete in both swimming and alpine skiing. She's a published poet. She's a Ted talker. She's just awe-inspiring. I'm speechless even now because I don't really know how to explain just how touching this podcast was to me. She's a lifelong patient of the NHS. She's been in hospital for 1.5 years as a teenager. She's had 17 admissions to an ICU since the start of medical school. She's also a victim. She's quite frankly shared her experiences of being discriminated as against as a patient and as a medical student. And she's a huge advocate for better patient care through empathy. I really thought that this podcast was going to go a different route and what it was for me was a huge rollercoaster of emotions. I don't think I've laughed as much on a podcast. I don't think I've felt as angry. I certainly haven't felt this emotional. And I think it's going to be a journey for you guys. If I would request one thing is that you you listen to this, you give it your utmost attention and you please check out Alexandra's incredible Ted talk, which you can find via her social media links. It's at Alexandra_DBMed and she also has an incredible organisation called Faces of the NHS, which hopes to remove the stereotypes in the NHS. And she's near to complete the writing of her first book as well. So she's almost an author to add to her many accolades. And you can find her organisation at Faces of the NHS. I'm not going to talk any more too much more about this. The only thing I'm going to say is the recipe that I cooked Alexandra, which she loved, is on the YouTube channel, the doctorskitchen.com. Please go check that out. She was the last podcast guest to be at the studio before we moved location and it was just a privilege to have her. It was also her birthday, so we gave her some cake at the end of the shoot, which was very fitting. On to the podcast, and if you like this podcast, please do give it a five star review. It really does help. Alexandra, thank you so much for coming into the kitchen today.

Alexandra Adams: No worries, I'm excited.

Dr Rupy: I'm excited. You are the final guest that we're going to be having here in the studio. So and it's an absolute privilege to meet you and to get you here after connecting via social media. You are such a chatterbox. Which is such a good thing.

Alexandra Adams: I'm going to lose my voice in a minute.

Dr Rupy: Don't lose your voice. Don't lose your voice. Sometimes we get guests to come in and it's a new environment and there's lights everywhere and there's two people behind and we've got the audio producers. But you're like straight into it and I love it. Your personality is exactly how I imagined.

Alexandra Adams: Oh, thank you.

Dr Rupy: Welcome and it's a privilege to meet you. And it's a privilege to be cooking for you as well.

Alexandra Adams: Exciting.

Dr Rupy: We had a chat on the phone and you love experimental food, you love trying new things. Music to my ears. So for you, I'm making something that I haven't made before.

Alexandra Adams: That's exciting.

Dr Rupy: It's exciting for me as well. So it's going to be nice and spicy. We're going to go in, it's going to be a spicy chickpeas with a saag, also known as wilted spinach, some curry leaves, a touch of coconut cream, all put together in a in a bowl. Very simple. The spices we're going to be using are nigella seeds, also known as onion seeds, cumin, mustard, some garam masala, hitting it with some curry leaves, a little bit of red chili. Are you all right with spice?

Alexandra Adams: Yeah, I mean, I'm not one of those people that can literally sort of have the very top spicy Nando's, but I I do like a little a little hint.

Dr Rupy: I love how you use Nando's as the uh...

Alexandra Adams: I live sometimes the mango and lime or lemon and herb, I'm like...

Dr Rupy: Okay, good to know. Good to know. I think that's like the ubiquitous way of which you know how much people like spice.

Alexandra Adams: But now I love I love seasonings, so it is, yeah.

Dr Rupy: Good. All right, okay. I will go for the mango and lime level of spice. Cool, I'm going to crack on with this. Tell me a bit about how you cook at home and what kind of things that you like. What's your sort of culinary go-to?

Alexandra Adams: So I love anything eccentric and I will literally just go into the cupboard and get everything out and just put them together and see, you know, see if it works essentially. And I love, I mean, I only got Instagram a year ago, so I'm quite behind in it. But I start making making all my food look really, really pretty. So I'm getting the wooden slates out and the wallpaper and trying to, you know. And literally my friends are just dying a thousand deaths, like, what are you doing? Just eat the stuff. But I love it. I love eccentric food. I mean, I tried a little bit of Veganuary. I didn't I didn't last sadly, but I love, I mean, obviously I told you that I do a lot of travelling and I love just trying sort of seasoning and and and dishes from all around the world. Sushi, love sushi. Korean food, Japanese food.

Dr Rupy: I love Korean food. So I recently flew via Korea to Sydney and I had a stop over in Seoul and I flew Korean Airways as well, right? So it was just bibimbap the whole way. And honestly, I was in heaven. I was like ordering more food. I was like, yeah, I'll have that Korean version because they have like the continental version or like the, you know, Anglo version of whatever the meal is and it's usually terrible. But the bibimbap was like so good. It's like one of the best things I've had in the air. It's incredible. Yeah.

Alexandra Adams: Oh my goodness. That's so cool.

Dr Rupy: Big fan of Korean food.

Alexandra Adams: Yeah. I remember I flew to um, flew to China and I stopped over in Singapore. So I was on Singapore Airlines. And I didn't realise, because it was the first time, well the second time I travelled, you know, away on my own. And you know, you got the food and and then they said, oh, do you want to try the Singapore sling, which is like a, you know, the cocktail of the country. And I thought you had to pay for it. So I was like, oh no, no, I'm all right, thank you. And then everyone was getting these Singapore slings and I was thinking, what am I missing out? And then I realised that you I could have got it for free. And I was totally regretting it for my entire trip. So I absolutely made sure I went to go and get a Singapore sling when I was in the country. But um, oh my gosh.

Dr Rupy: Did it make up? Did it deliver?

Alexandra Adams: It was good. I had it on a beach, so perfect.

Dr Rupy: Oh, you could be given anything on the beach, it'll be fine. Yeah, yeah.

Alexandra Adams: But yeah, so I I I love all food, to be honestly. Um, I've actually recently, because I love winter. I love autumn and winter and and sort of making really hot stews and curries and just feeling really homely. And I made this um, black rice porridge with coconut milk and stewed apple and and cinnamon and it was honestly, it was so good. And then of course, like me being me, I got some rose petals as well just to make it look pretty. And my my friends are just like, how much do you spend on these flowers? And I'm just like, you know, it's part of a dish.

Dr Rupy: I think rose petals in particular deserve a priority because they don't, it's not just about the way they look. They do impart some incredible flavour. That aroma, that beautiful sweetness.

Alexandra Adams: With the apple as well. It's incredible.

Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah. I'm going to get you to advise on my next books.

Alexandra Adams: Amazing.

Dr Rupy: It's clearly you've got the visuals down as well as the flavours as well.

Alexandra Adams: And I do photography as well.

Dr Rupy: Oh, do you? There you go, right. You've got multiple professions there.

Alexandra Adams: Yeah.

Dr Rupy: Talking of multiple professions, you've you've had an incredible experience doing sport as well as your more academic stuff now. How did you get into swimming and your most recent passion now, skiing?

Alexandra Adams: So with my swimming, I think I kind of fell into it naturally because my dad was a swimmer at national level. My mum was a gymnast, believe it or not. She's you saw her earlier.

Dr Rupy: I saw her earlier. She's definitely got a height for gymnast. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah.

Alexandra Adams: Oh gosh. But yeah, so quite a sporty family and um, and so I kind of grew up with it and then being deaf blind, someone did come up to me one day and said, oh, have you ever considered swimming for the disability team? I said, oh, you know, I didn't realise that there was, you know, sort of a thing, you know. Um, and believe it or not, sort of I went to my first national championships in Sheffield when I was 11 and came away with five gold and one silver.

Dr Rupy: Oh my god.

Alexandra Adams: So that was that was pretty cool. And then from there, I was kind of talent spotted and ended up on the GB team. And it quickly became my life. So I was training twice a day, every single day, land training, um, in between I was going to school and doing my homework. Um, and obviously I permanently smelled of chlorine. And the house smelled of chlorine as well. And then my sister picked it up as well. So she was swimming. So that was our life and I I can just remember spending many birthdays and what not at the swimming pool. It was it was just we were we were living there essentially. Um, and then unfortunately, I I was getting really bad, I had really bad asthma and I also had really bad reflux. And when I was swimming, it was kind of really, it was triggering sort of these respiratory episodes. Um, so I ended up sort of being blue lighted to A&E every single night after training. And so I turned into this like all year round Christmas turkey because they literally just be like sending me in an ambulance in like tin foil in a swimming costume. And it was just like, this isn't a life. It really isn't. Um, so I went for elective surgery, um, stomach surgery and it was meant to be pretty straightforward. Long story short, it went very wrong. Um, I they damaged the vagus nerve. So I could no longer swallow, um, could no longer eat. Um, so very quickly so I went down like three stone. And um, I ended up having 20 stomach surgeries in that year. Um, I had two, I had a feeding tube put in to the stomach and to the small intestine. And and yeah, and then so by that point, obviously swimming was was over. Um, and at that time, I was of school leaving age. Um, so I couldn't go back to school. Um, so I had to, and at that point, I knew that I wanted to be a doctor because obviously with my experiences of being a patient for so long.

Dr Rupy: How old were you at that time?

Alexandra Adams: So I was 16, or 16 and a half. So I was fairly young. Um, but unfortunately, where the hospital I was based at was, um, so when you're 16, you're classed as an adult, whereas somewhere else, you know, you might be still on a pediatric ward. So I was on this surgical ward surrounded by um, sort of much elderly patients. And at times it was really, it was really isolating. And I remember sort of for at least two months, I was the only patient on the bay that didn't have dementia. And so every single night sort of, you know, all the bless them, the patients would be screaming out, oh, the police are here or, you know, going through their list of vegetables and and I just could not sleep. I mean, it's great because I'm hearing impaired, I could just switch my hearing aids off and I don't hear anything. So but in all fairness, it was a really, um, it was a tough year and a half. Um, I mean, I don't remember a lot because I was, I was on morphine pump. At one point, I was on an epidural because I was in so much pain. Um, so I was kind of knocked out with all the drugs. Um, but yeah, I I came out and couldn't go back to the school that I was at and they ended up having to enroll at a blind school, which was residential. And um, I was there for for three years, just just over three years. And it was really good. It it changed me as a person. Um, so before I was very sort of dependent. I didn't have a lot of confidence. I wouldn't go into a shop on my own, um, to buy a chocolate bar or whatever. I wouldn't get on a bus on my own. And then within the first year of this going to this new school, I was on a plane to Africa alone. And so I'd literally changed, I changed as a person and it was great. But academically, it was sadly, I think we were put into a bubble, not in a bad way, but I think people wanted to protect us and they didn't, they didn't think that we could maybe achieve as much as we could. Um, so...

Dr Rupy: Was that because of the assumption that because of your disability, you're limited?

Alexandra Adams: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So we were, it was almost like we weren't pushed, we weren't pushed to achieve high, um, because I guess they just didn't want to have us hurt in society, if you know what I mean? The stereotypes.

Dr Rupy: You can almost empathise with their the thinking behind that even though I don't agree with it. You can you sort of understand it probably wasn't coming out of a of negative, you don't want to set you up for failure.

Alexandra Adams: Yeah, it was it was not malicious at all. And you know, they really, really cared for us. I mean, the school that at the time I was there, there was only 60 students. So we were like a family. It was it was wonderful. But when I said, hey, I want to do medicine, they just laughed. And they said, Alexandra, you can't be a doctor because you're you're deaf blind. Don't be so ridiculous. And obviously, I've had stubborn on my school report every single year since about four. And so I was still stubborn at this point. So what did I do? I I went the complete opposite end and and decided to apply to to medical school.

Dr Rupy: And what age was that?

Alexandra Adams: So I was 18, but I started this school and came out when I was 20, 21. And uh, so I was a bit older, but they allowed students on for a little bit longer because of the residential um, setup. And I had to, because the class, you know, saying that there were 60 students, the class sizes were ranging from one to three students per class. Um, and I can just remember in my biology class, there was only two of us. And um, I essentially the teachers weren't, um, I don't want to say equipped, but they just because they weren't expecting people to sort of take on A levels and and go off to university, they didn't really teach us. So I essentially said to the school, look, I want to go to medical school and the only way of me doing this is for me to to work hard and get my A level grades. And so I said, look, put me on the exam board or the exam. Um, I will get some textbooks and I will go away and teach myself. So essentially, in my spare time, I taught myself three A levels and honestly, it was it was testing at times. I mean, having gone from being bedridden in hospital for a year and a half and you know, completely relying on my parents at home to moving away, doing my own washing, shopping, cleaning, everything, ironing, and teaching myself A levels completely by myself was literally just mind blowing at some point. But it was a great life lesson.

Dr Rupy: My mind is blown right now. If I didn't have, if I didn't have respect for you now, it's just gone to a whole another level. Like teaching yourself A levels from scratch after having such a traumatizing experience in hospital, being told that you don't have the potential to go into medical school. You you have to overcome so many barriers. I'm so glad you're such a stubborn person.

Alexandra Adams: I think it's a good thing at times. It really is. I mean, if I wasn't stubborn, I would not be where I am today, really.

Dr Rupy: Absolutely.

Alexandra Adams: Um, but yeah, I think that stage of my life was a it was a game changer. It really changed my life without sounding cliche. It was really, um, taught me a lot of lessons and it it threw me into the big wide world. It was almost like a brick in the face, but a nice brick. You know, like, oh.

Dr Rupy: And tell me about Africa. I don't think I've heard that before. What did you do over there?

Alexandra Adams: Oh, so that was that was really good. So I did a a gap medics placement and I'd heard of it and you know, it was it was an opportunity to get work experience in a hospital. And it was fantastic. And you know, it was funny because I was almost half expecting the doctors to go, oh, you're visually and hearing impaired. We don't know what to do, which is what's happened as a medical student. But out there, they were like, oh, come over and do this, come over and do that. And uh, I did all sorts of procedures, you know. It was fantastic. Oh, but you know what, it was so funny. I um, I didn't really because we had to take smart clothes out there, you know, for placement. And it wasn't until the second week that I was walking down the slope in the hospital and I was I had a bit of a limp. And I looked down and I've got two completely different shoes on. One's blue, one's black, one's got a heel, one's flat, one's got a bow and one's got a buckle. And I'm thinking, I've worn these shoes for two weeks and no one, no one has told me. Now I thought they've either not told me because they haven't noticed, or they haven't told me because they don't want to offend me because they think it's a visual impairment thing. Me thinking it was the latter, I then went to everyone and said, oh look, you know, haha, I've got two different shoes on, thinking no big deal, I'll just go back to my room and change my shoes. These were the only shoes I'd brought to Africa with me. So I was like this trend setter wearing odd shoes for the entire trip. It was so bad.

Dr Rupy: Did the kids start copying it? I can imagine it becoming like a viral thing, especially nowadays with like TikTok and stuff.

Alexandra Adams: You never know. I should go back and see if I can go back. Oh yeah, you're wearing different shoes. Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

Dr Rupy: Fantastic.

Alexandra Adams: But no, it was a great experience.

Dr Rupy: I feel like you could write a book on all the calamities that you were talking about some of them earlier, earlier before we jumped on the pod about the different things that you've had to endure and stuff. And just the fact that you can laugh about it as well, just it's always a defense mechanism, I think as well. Like the fact that you can overcome adversity with humour is brilliant.

Alexandra Adams: Yeah. And do you know what, I just love, I love not not purposely putting myself in these situations, but I love looking back and going, do you know what, actually, that was really funny. The number of times I've got lost on my travels. I mean, I got lost in a forest both in America and in Hong Kong. I'll tell you the Hong Kong story. I decided to go, I wanted to go see, see Victoria Peak. I say see, like I can't, I can't see it, but just to take a load of photos and put them up on Facebook or whatever. And I wanted, because being me, just trying to be different, I wanted to take an alternative route. So instead of taking the tram up, I decided to go to this kind of, you know, out of the blue neighbourhood.

Dr Rupy: Nothing stops you, does it, Alexandra? Honestly, like...

Alexandra Adams: So anyway, I went looking for this staircase, um, which I read about on a blog. And um, I couldn't find it and I was walking along this road and I came across this like ladder, which I later found out was a typhoon shelter thing. But I thought it was this staircase that they were talking about. So there's me with my white cane just climbing up this ladder. And then all of a sudden I'm in this like the undergrowth. I'm thinking, okay, like keep positive. I'm probably going to find the view at the end of this, not that I'm going to see this this view. So I'm walking and then all of a sudden, you know when you're in a forest, if you've ever been in a forest, you look around and you go, oh dear, which way did I come? There was no path whatsoever. So I'm thinking, oh my gosh. Um, so I carried on walking and then my cane is a ball at the end of it. And it rolls over when you're kind of going over like an edge. And everywhere I put it, it was going over the edge. I'm thinking, oh my gosh, I'm on a cliff of some sort with all these trees and, you know, didn't and at the time, I didn't have any mosquito spray on and everything. I was literally being nibbled. Um, so I'm thinking, right, I need to get down. So I sat down and I slid off the side of this edge, eventually sort of, you know, ducking all these branches, got to the bottom. I'm thinking, phew. And then I realised I'm surrounded by this like really high metal fence. And I didn't know whether it was electric or anything. And then I found this little hole about this big down there between a brown bush. Literally like a little broken hole. I thought, oh my gosh, I've got to like just get on my to my my stomach. And so I wiggled out this little hole. I'm thinking, oh my goodness, thank, you know, thank goodness. And um, I thought, yeah, I'm at the bottom. Carried on walking and my cane rolls over another edge. And I hear cars and I'm thinking, oh, civilization at last, because I genuinely thought, I I videoed myself, you know, just in case search and rescue find me at that point. That was the first time I'd ever done this. And so I'm thinking, right, now I'm going to have to sit down again and slide down this edge. And then I found myself on the hard shoulder of the motorway.

Dr Rupy: What?

Alexandra Adams: And all these cars are like going and I'm just like, what is this blind person doing on the motorway? And literally, and I thought maybe I should go back into the woods. And I was me trying to climb up the bank and the soil was. And so I had to literally like do the walk of shame down the motorway for about 15 minutes until I found a T junction, crossed the road and I went back into the uh, the subway.

Dr Rupy: Oh my god, Alexandra, honestly, I almost burnt my food here because I was so engrossed in what you're chatting about.

Alexandra Adams: I love the food though, it's great.

Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah, I'm sure you did. Honestly, you could write a book about the the adventures of Alexandra, honestly.

Alexandra Adams: I am literally, I'm writing a book. So I'm very nearly finished and you know, my friends have always told me, oh, you're like Bridget Jones, the real life. And and actually, I could completely relate to every single scene in the Bridget Jones movies. I would love to meet Bridget Jones someday. I really would. Um, but no, so I am writing a book. It's more about a memoir of being a a deaf blind medical student, but I do, I talk about my experiences as a patient, um, my sporting background, um, and I talk about my travels and the the plavas I get into in the process because I think it's funny, you know.

Dr Rupy: So I I think like, like I said, it's it's how you cope and we cope with humour, we cope with like telling stories and the narrative and everything else. And I can't wait to get into that actually, uh, in the podcast. Let me take you back to the recipe that I nearly ruined because I was so engrossed in what you're chatting about. Um, so this is, uh, just to recap, nigella seeds, mustard seeds, cumin, all cooked down in a little bit of oil. I've used olive, but you can use other nut oils. Um, the chickpeas that are already, uh, from a can, I've just drained them. I would cook them from scratch, but sometimes it takes a bit a while, or it does take a while. Curry leaves, which is the secret ingredient for an authentic sort of Punjabi, um, or Indian dish. Um, the spinach that I've put in wilted already. And the way I wilt it is just in a saucepan, lid on, no oil, no extra water, just let it wilt and then move it around the pan and then take it off.

Alexandra Adams: For how long?

Dr Rupy: Around five to six minutes. And then you just soak up the excess water on a kitchen towel and then you have a beautiful sort of spinach thing that just combines wonderfully. I'm just going to pop this on the side here.

Alexandra Adams: That looks stunning.

Dr Rupy: Traditionally, what we would do is serve this with a little bit of yogurt on the side. Um, but uh, I'll just serve it like this for now so you can have a smell and a taste. I'll give you a spoon.

Alexandra Adams: Oh, it looks incredible. It really does.

Dr Rupy: I'm glad. I'm glad. I'm really...

Alexandra Adams: I like I said, you know, I love sort of, I need to get my phone and take. This is going on the Instagram. This really is.

Dr Rupy: Oh, 100%. Yeah, yeah. Definitely get on the gram for sure, mate. For sure. Oh, go on YouTube, gram, the whole works.

Alexandra Adams: How was your lunch?

Dr Rupy: It was amazing. It took me so long to but I obviously I just speak so long and...

Alexandra Adams: I've never had a guest that's enjoyed the lunch so much to the point where you dragged out the eating. Just enjoying, savouring every single bite. Honestly, pleasure for someone who's cooked the food, who enjoys, you know, pleasing other people through food. It's the best compliment.

Dr Rupy: Thank you. Thank you, Rupy. No, it's just it's just and for me, like I was saying earlier, being visually and hearing impaired, like just eating food is just so it's so sensual, isn't it? It is like literally you every mouthful you really like pay attention to what you're tasting, what you're seeing, what you're hearing, what you're it's just oh, it was beautiful. It was divine.

Alexandra Adams: Because I was quite surprised considering you've had so many operations on your gut and uh, you've had peg feeding, you've had to have like, you know, a slow transition from liquid diet to something that a lot more with a lot more variety. A lot of people would see eating as like a chore or something that brings back a lot of bad memories, but not so for you.

Dr Rupy: I'm I was really desperate to get back to to a normal diet, but obviously it was just not knowing how long it would take for the vagus nerve to to repair itself. I mean, I still struggle with some foods, um, and I do have an element of gastroparesis now, but it's just it's just being mindful of how I eat, when I eat, what I eat, but still being able to enjoy it. Um, so I make sure that I have dinner fairly early, so 5:30, 6:30 rather than sort of late at night. Um, and it's the whole sort of little more often rather than like huge meals um, in one go, but it doesn't mean that you can't, you can't enjoy stuff. I mean, I really did not like ensure drinks. They're just oh gosh, nutritional drinks are disgusting. And I can just remember actually a few months ago, um, we had like a a teaching session at the medical school and they were like, oh, does anyone want to try the ensure drinks? Like they've got all these like variety of flavours and everyone was getting so excited and there was me in my chair thinking, you have no idea.

Alexandra Adams: No idea. Exactly.

Dr Rupy: And like when you have to tell your patient, oh, there's really, they're really yummy, like, you know, I recommend this one. And I'm literally saying it through gritted teeth because actually they are the most revolting things I have ever tasted. Um, so yeah, and I actually I do have a garage full of them just in case I have a bad flare up or anything and then just like, oh no, they just, yeah, the stocks don't go down because I just avoid them at all costs.

Alexandra Adams: And for the listeners, just describe a bit about gastroparesis and what that means for you.

Dr Rupy: So essentially, it just means that I could have, I could eat a normal meal and then, you know, I would be really sick, but it won't be sort of 20 minutes an hour later, it will literally be seven or eight hours later. So as as gruesome as it sounds, I could be having chicken for lunch and then sort of at 1 o'clock the next morning, I could be vomiting lumps of chicken. And it doesn't happen all the time, but it's when I have bad flare ups, um, it's just it's exhausting. Um, and it it kind of makes you feel really giddy as well because your sugars go up and down, like they really sort of, yeah, it's and it's quite a challenge because when I'm on placement, you know, you never know when you're going to have a good day or a bad day. Um, and then you're thinking, oh, you know, should I, should I eat something or should I wait till I get back? But I don't want to be ill this afternoon. So there's all these things that you have to take into account. Um, and sometimes it is really, it's really bothersome, but it's just all a complication resulting from all the surgeries and I've just had to accept that that's happened and just have to live with it really. But like I said, you know, it doesn't stop me from enjoying food, um, cooking, eating.

Alexandra Adams: And this is why I just think you're going to be the most incredible doctor when you eventually qualify in the next couple of years because you can identify so much with patient journeys. You are clearly eloquent and smart enough to do the job and the day-to-day, but people don't realise that medicine isn't about the ability to suture up a laceration or, you know, perform a surgery or do some other sort of intervention that involves something physical or reading a lab result. The majority of what I do, and this extends to A&E as well, is have meaningful conversations where you establish rapport and you try and get to the, uh, sometimes emotional distress as well as the physical distress. And to do that as a doctor requires empathy. And if you've ever been a patient, which you've obviously, uh, been a patient for a long time and you've had a lot of, uh, traumatizing experiences. I've had that experience as well when I had my own heart issues and stuff. You you understand the vulnerability and how embarrassing it is to be a patient, to be at the end of the bed. I I I've told this story before on the podcast, but one of the most, um, eye-opening experiences for me wasn't being hooked up to the cardiac, uh, monitor, wasn't having all the investigations. It was simply, uh, being wheeled from the cardiac unit to the X-ray department to have my chest X-ray, uh, through the corridor in the middle of the day. And I was in my pajamas, I had the porter, I had the nurse with me who had to transport me with the cardiac monitor. And people weren't looking at me. It wasn't like I was being stared at. But I felt like I was being stared at, right? And that will never, ever leave me because I know what it's like to be in the bed at that time. And if you can, if you can tap into that as a, as anything as a health professional, um, you will become an incredible medical practitioner because you understand it at a much deeper level what really medicine involves.

Dr Rupy: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it makes you, you, it makes you realise that you are so vulnerable as a patient and you, you can't exactly do anything about it because you can't just get up and and go places. You, you are kind of, you're almost relying on everybody else around you to do things for you when you're so not used to that. Um, and I totally, when you, when you said that going in the corridor and in the bed in your pajamas, I, I totally empathise and actually, I have been in the hospital as a patient a lot when I'm a medical student. So I see my colleagues as who then become my doctors, my medical student friends become the medical students who are taking my history and and honestly, sometimes it can be so, oh, just it is, it's embarrassing, but it exposes you to the real world. And I mean, I guess this again sounds a bit gross, but I remember in one of my ICU admissions, I was literally, I was really delirious, um, but it was kind of the the phase where I was sort of gradually coming out of the delirium. So I was vaguely aware of what was going around me. Um, but I can remember just having awful, awful runs, awful runs and they just said, just go. And I just remember lying in the bed and literally the the feeling of feces coming all the way up to like, you know, my chest and honestly, if I was with it, I would be absolutely dying with embarrassment. But honestly, I was so ill, I just didn't care. But listening back to it, I was just, oh, it was, yeah.

Alexandra Adams: It makes you realise that when a patient goes, I really don't want to use a commode, I don't want to use a bed pan. I totally get why. I totally understand rather than, oh, don't be silly, you know, it's it's fine. You need to be able to sit down and say, look, I've had this really embarrassing experience. I mean, back when I was a patient on for that year and a half, I can remember, I was bedridden for most of the time. Um, but I can remember before having an epidural in, I um, was put onto a commode and I literally had nothing on, not even a gown. For the listeners, a commode is like a portable toilet.

Dr Rupy: Yes, so it's basically, yeah, and it's got like a, it's like a chair almost and you just sit on it and and they take the the box away. Yes, yeah. Um, but yeah, so I had nothing on and the nurse had forgotten to put the brakes on. Oh no. And so I was literally so weak at this point. I literally heaved myself into this commode and out I go, wheeling into the middle of the corridor. I mean, I was on a surgical ward, but at the time, like four out of the five patients had dementia, so I really hope that they don't literally remember what happened. But but for me, with the doctors seeing through the window and everything, and as a young 16 year old, I couldn't have been so more embarrassed. Honestly, it was...

Alexandra Adams: Alexandra, the number of stories you've got, honestly, like we still need to go back to the Tanzanian story as well. But like, but you just pull out all these stories again and again. And like we just I've been like, you know, in good humour chatting to you about this for the last couple of hours now. I just can't believe how many you've got.

Dr Rupy: It's yeah, it's crazy. It's honestly...

Alexandra Adams: Where do you want me to start?

Dr Rupy: I don't know. I don't know. Oh, I mean, with Tanzania, it was because that was my first ever...

Alexandra Adams: Oh, we'll go back to Tanzania. Okay.

Dr Rupy: That was my first ever trip. I mean, I was saying to you earlier over dinner that I'd, you know, before I went to this blind school, I was literally so dependent on my my parents. I didn't have any confidence. I wouldn't go anywhere on my own. I wouldn't even take the bus. And then within my first year of going to this school, I was gallivanting around the world on my own. Um, but oh my goodness, Tanzania was was so funny. So as I was explaining, now I exude the rude. I'm so sorry, but I was on placement and and the doctors were amazing. They really, they really tried to get me involved, you know, despite my disabilities and they would go, oh, Alexandra, come over and do this and come over and do that. And I had a week in internal medicine and a week in surgery. And I was in surgery and the the doctor came up to me and said, oh, Alexandra, do you want to come over and do this circumcision? Now, at the age of that then, I had never heard of the word circumcision before because I'm quite a naive person at this point. And I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, like really want to get involved. Like a keen medical student. Literally. And I yeah, and um, so they scrubbed me up and put me in my gown and put my mask on. And then I realised evidently what I was about to do and I was like, oh, okay. Um, and for this, I think this patient um, was having recurrent infections. So it was for for medical purpose. And um, so yeah, he literally the doctor, you know, told me what to do. But the funny thing was was that the other students who were doing the procedures in the other room were doing it at arms width like any other surgeon would. But me being visually impaired, I was literally like an inch away. And this poor patient was only under local anesthetic. So he was completely aware that there was this blind, untrained, not even medical student at this point, operating on his penis. And I was just like, mambo. I kept putting my thumbs up and I felt so bad for him. But you know, it was so funny because I was genuinely convinced that this doctor would be like, no, you can't do this. You're visually impaired. But he encouraged me. In fact, he said I had a really steady hand and he told me to come back and do the other patient's procedures. And I was like, oh my goodness. So anyway, the story continues. I I went away um, on a safari weekend, um, you know, just to kind of like wind down off of placement. And on the the side of a safari park where, you know, there were cottages where we were all staying. And the cottages are each named after an animal local to that area. And knowing my luck, my cottage was called Dick Dick Cottage. And honestly, I told you this would be rude. I have no idea what a dick dick was. So obviously I went round asking what it was. And apparently it's this kind of um, it's kind of like a like a kangaroo. It's an animal that that jumps and you know, I've never heard of it before. I thought, oh great. And anyway, I had a fantastic weekend and you know, fast forward to home, I had to, I couldn't take the bus with everyone else and it was a nine-hour drive to the airport. Um, because my flight was at a funny time. So the program manager had offered to take me personally in his car to the airport. And I thought, oh my goodness, that's so kind of you. And his three other brothers were also going to the airport. But it wasn't until it was like four hours in that I realised that I was in the back of a Jeep in the middle of a desert with four men I didn't really know. Um, but it was fine. It was fine. And then we um, and then we we stopped and we were literally in the middle of nowhere. And one of the brothers in the front, he got out and he was just facing, you know, the horizon, sort of back to me, sort of thing. And um, obviously he was having a a toilet break. But me being visually impaired, I I couldn't quite see that. Um, so I thought he was admiring the view. So I go, what a lovely view. And then the brothers look at me like, you're a bit weird, like. And anyway, so I'm just looking around, completely oblivious whilst this the guy's on his toilet break, literally within my full vision, you know, of what I had. And um, anyway, so I saw a few zebras sort of like potter around. And then for me, I can only see shapes um, from a distance. I saw this thing like jumping up and down in the background. And I said, oh look, it's a dick dick whilst he was on his toilet break. Honestly. And they literally must have thought I was so rude. And then I needed a toilet break and me being like I said, I'm so sorry. I'm so gullible. I'm so naive. And literally, I was like, when we get to the next service station, can can I please stop so I can go to the toilet? And they said, yeah, sure. They don't have service stations in Tanzania, literally. And um, so it was another four hours until we stopped and we stopped in this like lorry park. It was not like, you know, the usual toilets you'd expect in sort of the Western world. And so anyway, they dropped me off and they pointed me to to where the toilets were. And it was literally this this hole in the floor. And there wasn't even a door to sort of, you know, shield you. It's literally just kind of like a a barred gate, if you like. And anyway, I'm I'm sort of getting used to this whole crouching down thing, but honestly, it was so hard to relax. And I was desperate for the toilet. And I wasn't, I wasn't wearing a skirt, which is probably the most inconvenient of things. So anyway, I'm I'm squatting for at least five minutes going, come on, come on, I just need to go. I'm desperate. Please relax. And then just as about as I was going to go, the guy, the driver called, Alexandra, are you okay in there? And literally lost my nerve all together and literally wet myself and it went everywhere. And I had to waddle out back into this lorry park in front of all these people with a clearly very dark patch like soaking through my trousers. And I had to sit in that that the poor guy's car for like another few hours. So I eventually got on the plane and scaved, but oh my goodness, it was...

Dr Rupy: I need I need to stop. I'm sure you've got another story that started when you were in JFK. This all started from the delirium that you were experiencing in ICU, which which you've got to get back to. Um, but I just honestly, I'm just sat here listening and I just I cannot wait for your book to come out because it's like Adam Kay on steroids. It really is. Honestly, and it just, you know, brilliant. Let's divert to we'll divert back. I think we should definitely come back to all your experiences with your other um, uh, were they visually impaired as well as um, uh, hearing impaired?

Alexandra Adams: Yes, so I met one deaf doctor and five blind doctors. Um, incredible. Um, you know, and actually it was the reaffirmation that what I was trying to do was really possible. And I was able to go home and and say to my own medical school, look, there's other people out there who are doing it and they're doing it by doing things this way. Um, so for instance, the one of the blind doctors I met and and I'm I'm really good friends with them all and I really hope that one day I can go back out to the US and have a reunion. And he was just saying to me, he just he was so clever in everything I said to him, he just had an answer for everything. Um, absolute genius. And he just said to me, or rather, I said to him, you know, what if theoretically, I wanted to become a psychiatrist? If I can't read an x-ray, theoretically, then I will never be able to be a psychiatrist, even though I will probably never ever look at an x-ray in that specialty. And he just said to me, have you ever gone up to a doctor who wears contact lenses or glasses and asked them to remove them? Can they still insert the cannula? Can they still read the x-ray with precise vision? You know, can they still do this and that? The answer is probably no. But we don't see that as disability. And it's just really interesting because as soon as you see something visible, like a white cane or hearing aids, people just immediately assume that you are incapable. And they I I think as a society, we are very used to kind of just being negative without sounding negative. Um, we kind of just jump to the the conclusion that things aren't doable. You know, we're pessimists. Um, and that's I think that I don't um, I don't feel involved in society because I'm actually quite an optimist. I think, hang on a minute, you know, there is a solution to this. There's always a solution to anything. Um, and I just think it's so important we pay attention to that because there are ways. Um, and then obviously when I was seeing the deaf doctor, even I was interested as to, you know, how does he hear not only his patients, but how does he hear things like the heart, the lungs, you know, the bowel sounds through a stethoscope? And literally, it's amazing because I have one of my own now. Um, he uses a Bluetooth stethoscope. So it does not put anything in his ears and it's literally just the bell, the end of the stethoscope. It's all high-tech. You literally just switch something on your hearing aids and tada, you can hear someone's heart without even putting it anywhere near your ears. And I think it's incredible because people think I have super hearing. I just need X-ray specs now and then I am absolutely sorted. But you know, it is, it's technology. And actually, when people ask me, oh, you know, so what's your biggest barrier doing medicine as a deaf blind person? Well, I say, well, actually, it's not my disabilities. It's people's ignorances. It's people's sort of unwillingness to to accept who I am, um, and not being willing to sit down and say, okay, so how can we come up with a solution for this? Um, so it was a it was a very inspiring, eye-opening trip.

Dr Rupy: This is precisely why I wanted you to come on the pod, not purely because you're breaking barriers by being the UK's first, uh, blind and and deaf doctor, but because you inspire us and everyone around you to think much more positively and to not limit ourselves. What you said about contact lenses, you know, it it it really does paint a a true picture of how we think very, um, pessimistically about everything in our lives. And I think we're trying to do that from a young age. And I'd love to hear a bit more about how like, yeah, your upbringing may have, uh, encouraged you to to be stubborn and to be more sort of like adventurous, as it sounds like you are. Very adventurous. But um, uh, I I think, um, if we are much more solutions focused and actually what we want to achieve, we will eventually get there, whether it be through high-tech solutions, whether it be, you know, uh, building on the paths of other people who have have done like the deaf and blind doctors that you met in the US.

Alexandra Adams: Yeah. And I and I think it's also just a a cultural shift as well. We do need to to be more accepting of each other because until we do that, we are never going to, and I'm so sorry, I keep using these puns, but we're never going to open our eyes to the real possibilities. Um, like, sorry, I don't mean to do this, but going back to my traveling, like, you know, when I was sort of stuck in these situations like lost in a forest, there was no point me sitting on the ground and crying because really, that is not going to solve anything. The only way out was to be optimistic and say, right, I'm going to carry on walking until I literally get to the end of the tunnel. And it's the same concept for everything else in life. And for me, I apply that every day in medicine. You've just got to keep walking it. You've just got to keep going and you will eventually get there, no matter how rocky that journey is. And and I think this kind of represents my entire life in a way because hopefully at the end, I'll get to this beautiful destination, which is I'm going to qualify as a doctor and I get to help people. But I don't think you can truly get to a beautiful destination without taking a really rocky journey. I don't think the journey is as simple as beautiful as as the final thing. And and that's certainly the case for me, you know, I've had a very up and down rocky journey in life. But I wouldn't change any of that because like I was saying earlier, it's given me so much life experience, which actually, okay, at the time it might have been really traumatic for me, but in the long, you know, in the grand scheme of things, in the long term, it is going to benefit so many other people because I can give that empathy and I can give that example and I can share my experiences.

Dr Rupy: Absolutely. You're a beacon hold of for so many people. I remember, um, listening to your Ted talk and you told the story of, uh, the child who sat next to you with a disability. And he was, you know, naturally being, uh, not ridiculed, but he was being told he can't achieve what he wanted to do, which was to to go into medicine.

Alexandra Adams: Yes, he'd already been put in that little bubble, that little sort of like, um, what's it, it's all about tick boxes in society at the moment. Oh, he doesn't tick the, I'm able to hear. And I just, it made me so mad and and like I said, I don't normally barge into conversations, but I really did have to, I felt like it was my place to say something.

Dr Rupy: What did you say to the boy?

Alexandra Adams: So essentially, this little boy called Tim came and sat next to me on the underground. And he publicly announced to his his mother and the rest of the train carriage that he wanted to be a doctor when he grew up. And I thought, oh great, you know, in my mind. But his mum just laughed and said, but Tim, how are you going to hear all the poorly people? And Tim sank down into his seat with disappointment. And I looked to my side and I and I noticed that he'd got hearing aids. And like I said, I don't normally barge into conversations. It's not a thing to do on the underground. People just kind of keep their heads down and don't talk to each other. Um, but I couldn't help but personally empathise with Tim. So I lent in and I pointed to his and my hearing aids and I said, you can be anything you want to be. This is your superpower. And and I, yeah, I don't know where Tim is now, but I really hope that he takes that advice and he always dreams big and and reaches for his dreams really. I I just hope that one day he gets to be the doctor that he does want to be.

Dr Rupy: Absolutely. And I think one day he'll watch your story as well and, you know, remember you were that girl on the train who like told him to reach for the stars. And I think like it it speaks for, uh, um, very much to the topic of your incredible Ted talk that I'll make sure I link to in the podcast notes of how we make, um, judgments on other people, yes, but also on ourselves. We do limit ourselves. We're like, you know, I can't be a doctor or I can't, you know, run that Iron Man or I can't do this because other people will ridicule me. Um, and on a macro level, you know, you are living testament to how you can actually overcome huge, huge barriers. I mean, the thought, if I'm being very honest, uh, and this speaks to my ignorance, I wouldn't have thought it would have been possible for someone who is deaf and blind to work in the profession because I'm limited by what I think a doctor should be able to do. So I'm, you know, I'm very much guilty of the same thing and you are proving me and many, many others wrong. And that's and it's it's so good to to, you know, speak about this openly.

Alexandra Adams: Yeah. And and I think that for most people, it's not like in your case, it's not that you're being malicious. It's not being like, oh, you just you can't be part of of this workforce. It's literally just there aren't there isn't anybody else out there who is deaf blind in the UK who are in the field. And so therefore, we're just oblivious to it. We don't we just don't know. So you're right. I think it's all about just making it a very open topic of conversation to to say, look, actually, this is doable. This is how I'm doing things and this is how we can help other people in a similar situation to me achieve their dreams in medicine. Um, because there is and it's a spectrum, isn't it? You know, when you when you think of blindness, well, actually, it's not just either I see everything or I see nothing. There's absolutely everything in between. So for instance, with my vision, I've got just under 5% in the left eye centrally and nothing else. I don't have any vision in my right eye. And that sounds really bad on paper. But then there's me going off, I I'm a runner, I go skiing, um, I go traveling around. Okay, yes, I I do get lost in a few forests every now and then, but you know, I'm very independent. But if you saw that on paper, you'd think, whoa, I wouldn't be even get from room to room in the house. And it's the same thing with my hearing. So I am classified as having severe to profound hearing loss, but I don't sound like a typically deaf person. When I take my hearing aids out, I'm completely and utterly deaf, which honestly is the most advantageous thing ever, apart from when the fire alarm goes off in the middle of the night. That's not so good. But it's and it's just about, um, trying to help people understand what that really means because I I can just remember, um, I had a bit of a media storm before Christmas and you know, doing loads of radio and and television interviews. And you know, you get a lot of comments naturally and and most of them were really positive. But I can remember, you know, there there were a few people that, you know, just did not approve at all. And one person, one of my interviews and and bearing in mind it was a live interview on national television, uh, face to face with a presenter. And he said, how can he, how can I communicate with patients if I am deaf? Like that's just not possible. But surely, me having a face-to-face interview with someone on live TV, wasn't that enough to kind of prove that I can talk, I can hear, I can hold a conversation. And I don't normally, I you know, I get so many comments, I just have to kind of just brush past the negative ones, but I did feel like I needed to just explain. So I I messaged him back and uh, I kind of, I think I made my point. He didn't get back to me after that. So I was like, okay.

Dr Rupy: I think every now and then, I think we have to indulge in entertaining ourselves and actually responding to some of the negative comments. But as a general rule of thumb, like I've learned to ignore and to carry on with the mission and your your mission obviously is very clear. Um, but uh, I think it just speaks to, you know, how measured you are. I mean, I don't I couldn't I couldn't even imagine the amount of negativity that you've had in the past. And the way we speak about it now, and I think I should make this clear, it's it's almost like you're over the hurdle. It's like you've got there, you're in medical school and you're on your way. Actually, this is something you deal with on a daily basis. And from what you were telling me about even when you went into medical school, you had the, um, uh, the acceptance letter and then you had this a rejection.

Alexandra Adams: Yes, so I I got an initial place at a medical school and I remember between getting my offer in April and getting my results in August, I went up to this medical school five times in person. And I basically just said, look, are you sure you can have me? Um, are you sure you're able to support me as, you know, a student with additional needs? Because, you know, I'm I was being realistic. I knew that it was going to be way harder. Um, but I just wanted to make sure that it was possible and that I was going to the right place. And all along they were telling me it was absolutely fine. All the support was ready. Um, they were looking forward to having me. And so then I got higher grades in in August than what they'd asked for. So I thought, oh my goodness, brilliant, you know, I've actually done it. I am going to medical school. And I can just I can clearly remember the excitement, you know, you probably can remember those days where you go and you buy your crockery. I love my crockery, obviously. Um, your bed sheets and everything to go with the pasty university halls, you know, everything. Um, and then a week before moving into accommodation, bearing in mind this was mid-September, I literally just received a phone call one evening from this medical school saying, sorry, we've changed our minds. We don't want you anymore because you're disabled. And just like that, they'd put the phone down and I was left with nothing for a whole year. And I and I can clearly remember for about three weeks, I could not talk to anyone. I was so, I I think I'd very quickly gone past the, oh my goodness, I'm devastated. I was angry. I was like, how can an educational institution discriminate like that? I mean, bearing in mind that I had, you know, so many times gone up to this medical school and said, are you sure? Are you absolutely 200% sure? And time and time again, they were saying it was fine. And then they said that the last minute, I just thought it was honestly, but then of course, I I remediated that by going traveling again. So yeah.

Dr Rupy: I mean, just you talking about it, honestly, like I'm angry thinking about it. I'm angry like it that really does make my blood boil. I I just so frustrating the fact that you've done everything in your power, you've checked with them again and again and then for them to just brush you aside with huge, huge discrimination. I mean, we won't name the medical school, but like, you know, it's just it's embarrassing for for anyone part of any institution that represents medics.

Alexandra Adams: And you know, people just come up to me and said, why don't you like take it further? Why don't you you sort of like, I don't know, investigate why this happened. But then, and this was the point where, you know, in the three weeks where I was just so down in a dark place, my parents said to me, look, you know, and these, you know, my parents were my greatest supporters. And they've always said, you know, go, you know, achieve your dreams. But they were the ones who actually then sat down and said, look, well done for trying, but maybe this is a sign, it's just not going to work. But me being stubborn, like I said to you earlier, I had this instinct to give it one more go. Now, I didn't want to take this up. I didn't want to sort of fight against what had just happened because I didn't want to be wasting my energy on the bad stuff. I wanted to be putting all my eggs in one basket and that basket was to get into medical school for good. Um, which I'm so glad I did because if I hadn't gone with that instinct, I think instinct is a very powerful, special thing actually. Had I not gone with that, I don't know where I would be now. Um, but I was very lucky to get into another medical school the year later. But but then again, you think that actually it was all fine and dandy from there, but actually it it only got worse and it made me realise very quickly that this is what I was going to be facing for quite possibly the rest of my career. Um, and although it has at times really reduced me to the ground, the way I see it, I try obviously, I like to try and be positive as I can. The way I see it is that, you know, at least on my first day as a junior doctor, I am not going to crumble by the slightest, um, you know, sort of discrimination or comment or, you know, um, so in a way, it's equipping me for the real world, but still it's some of the stuff that's been said to me has been really unacceptable. And I think actually that's kind of when I really started my journey in terms of sharing my voice. So the Ted talk, the blogging, the book, um, because before medical school, I was, like I know I wasn't very confident, but actually the the only thing that I did have confidence in was with who I was and what my disabilities meant. You know, I was, I was totally fine with going around with my white cane. Um, I was, I love doing sport. Um, I didn't let anything hold me back. But then actually starting medical school was the point that I was reminded every single day that I was different to everybody else, but I was reminded in a bad way. Um, I can remember in the first term of medical school, I was called into a meeting and the meeting was on the first floor. And so I went up into the stairs and as I went into the room, the the staff member basically said, oh, be careful of the corners of the tables, they're really, really sharp and we don't want you bumping into them and causing more paperwork. So this was within what, 60 seconds of me meeting me. So they had already assumed that I was this clumsy, reckless person. And and that was quite patronizing, but I thought actually, no, maybe they're just trying to, they're just, you know, caring. Um, and I can remember having this meeting and at the end, I really wanted to make a statement. So I ran down these stairs and I got to the bottom, fine. Um, and then the the hallway was quite dark and I'm I'm night blind, so I couldn't quite see where the door handle was. So very subtly, I just sort of skimmed my hand across the door, um, to feel where the handle was. And this staff member was at the top of the stairs and basically said, and how do you expect to become a doctor if you can't find the door handle? And from that day on, I felt so embarrassed to use my white cane. I can remember going into future meetings and not wanting to look at my phone because I didn't want to be seen looking at like too close. Um, I didn't want to give away any sort of evidence that I was disabled. And I was very quickly losing my own identity and it was awful. I hated it. Um, so I'd gone from being this person that was totally accepting of my own disabilities to to not just wanting to blend in essentially. Um, but actually since going to America, I've realised that actually, and it goes back to what I said to Tim, my white cane and my hearing aids are actually my superpowers and I need to use them because actually patients like doctors with superpowers, not not as in being superhuman, but just being able to use the very basics of what they what resources they have or the emotional, um, sort of intelligence they have to use to talk to their patients. And and it's great. I mean, I've had evidence of, you know, on, I was actually on geriatrics recently for my placement and um, you would think that I'd get the discrimination from my patients, but actually my patients are wonderful. It's my colleagues that I get it from. But these uh, these elderly patients bless them. I mean, one one of them was, I think quite delirious on on that day, but he genuinely thought I was carrying around a drumstick, which is my cane. He said, oh, you know, where's the rest of your band? I said, oh, I'll bring my band on Friday. I'll make some music on the ward. And then uh, another one thought I was seeking treasure, like a treasure detector along the hospital floor, which was quite funny. And then I um, and this patient will always, always um, stay in my mind and actually I talk about him in my book. Um, obviously I've changed the names and everything, but he um, he was a palliative patient and I really want to go down palliative medicine. I just think it's such a special field. And he looked at me and he said, you're blind. And that was the first time any patient had said that to me because he knew what a white cane was. Not many people surprisingly know what a white cane means. Um, but anyway, I went up to him and said, yes, I am, you know, I'm visually impaired and this is what I can see, this is what I can't see. And we just had this really lovely chat and um, it turned out that back in the day, he his job was um, it involved installing the tactile road surfaces. You know, when you go to a traffic light, you have all the sort of the bubbles on the floor. It's to tell you that you're about to approach a road or, you know, the stairs. And so he knew all about it. And and he was, he was fairly weak. In fact, he was waiting for um, a fast track home, basically to to die. And um, I just said, look, you know, and I unfolded my white cane and I put it in his hand from where he was lying in the bed and I said, this is how you use it. So I was sort of swaying it from side to side and oh, and the smile on his face was something I will always, always remember. And you know, for me, it's not the satisfaction from working out a diagnosis. For me, it's literally just making a patient smile. I think it's the best thing ever. And anyway, I said to the the team, I said, look, I really want to do palliative medicine. So if I get any opportunity to follow this patient up, please can you let me know? Because actually, it's really shocking in medical schools, we do not get much exposure to to death and dying through palliative um, care. And so I was very lucky. The hospice nurse got in touch and said, I'm going to be visiting this patient. Would you like to come with me? And I said, oh, absolutely. So I kind of, it was actually my day off and I was like, no, no, I'm going to I'm going to go. I really, really want to see him. I went to the house and his family had come over and um, he was at the point where he was, it was like the active dying process essentially. He couldn't open his eyes. He was, he was very weak. He wasn't talking, but he was, I think he was still aware that we were around. So I I held his hand and then I thought, oh, and I got my cane and I folded it up and I put it under his hand and you could just see his grip tighten around the white cane. And I just hope that, I think he knew that I was there and he he died the next day. Um, but I'm just so, so glad that I got to see him before. Um, and just and it just, it just really, it just made me realise that actually this this white cane is a superpower and actually I should be proud of who I am and and what I am and what this is. And you know, I can't let people's derogatory comments, you know, bring me down. I need to use it um, to to change perceptions in a good way.

Dr Rupy: Absolutely. I it's taken my breath away just listening to that story. Um, and uh, I'm kind of speechless. I'm going to have a minute, I think. Um...

Alexandra Adams: Crying, laughing.

Dr Rupy: Sorry. All sorts of emotions.

Alexandra Adams: No, no, I know. It's like it's definitely a rollercoaster uh, chat, you know, to and to, you know, one thing that really strikes me is like, how on earth did you muster the incredible psychological strength to overcome the discrimination and the ridicule of like not being, you know, someone saying you can't even open the door, how on earth are you going to be a doctor? Those are like, and and that's on the back of you having to jump of all those hurdles of like getting the high of the medical acceptance letter and then being taken, being put back another year and, you know, yes, having to go traveling, you had some great times, but then going back into the same process. And then like, you know, on a daily basis, just absolute grind. Like how have you developed that incredible mental strength and the, you know, the marathon, the energy that you need to do that on a daily basis?

Dr Rupy: I think, I mean, I'm not going to lie, there's been times where I've really broken down and thinking, oh my goodness, can I really do this? But I think it would be very unnatural and unhuman if you didn't do that. I think everyone has to have a cry, everyone has to to feel vulnerable and weak at times. Um, it's totally normal. I think the thing that's got me through is positivity and to think that actually, okay, look at all the terrible things that have happened, use that as a life story that will just give you so much more, um, experience to help other people. And I mean, it's it's been tricky because uh, one of the, because the discrimination I got, actually, I got a, I got a few months of it just day after day after day. And this all began on my first day of full-time placement in the clinical environment. So the years one and two, we were sort of in and out of lectures, um, and then year three, it was in the hospital, um, all the way through. And that was the the year that I'd recently come out of ICU in Italy where I had horrendous delirium. I was on life support for three weeks. I had sepsis and pneumonia. And my parents had to sign for a tracheostomy. Thank goodness I didn't have to have one in the end. Um, but they were essentially told that I would be going home in a box. Um, so anyway, I had really awful, awful delirium, which I can come back to in a minute. Um, but I had to start placement a little bit later than everybody else. But in a way, my mechanism of coping was to get back to medicine. I couldn't stand sitting at home, um, and just kind of sitting there and not really knowing what to do with myself. I was really weak. I was being tormented by these flashbacks and not being able to sleep. Um, I just needed to go back. Um, but obviously when I did, that's when all the discrimination happened. I'm thinking, oh my goodness, it is literally one thing after another. Um, I mean, with the, going back to the delirium, seeing that we're on the topic, um, it it's it's very different to having a nightmare because you don't just see it, you hear it, you feel it, you smell it, you taste it. It is literally like a 3D experience essentially. And, um, it's so real. It is real. And for me, it was kind of like this jumble of, um, being in a plane crash, spewed out onto a concrete runway. And I can still remember the the heat of the concrete as I lay in on this tarmac, but I couldn't get up. I was like a jelly. I thought that my jaw had dislocated and, you know, I was metal poles, you know, being and obviously in theory, they were just, it was the ventilator and the the tubes in my nose and everywhere else. And um, I thought I was hanging off the edge of a building for days. I thought I was at my funeral. Um, I didn't, I didn't recognise my parents. So I remember them saying, who am I? And I literally had dysphonia. I couldn't tell them. I could not tell them. I thought I was in the year 2024. I didn't know who I was. I'd forgotten that I'd had a sister. Um, really, really, really bad stuff. Um, I think the only uplifting thing I can remember about the delirium is that I was convinced and and I was on holiday in Italy at the time. So for the context, I was convinced that this really good-looking Italian man had come to visit me every single day. And I was convinced that we'd fallen in love. And I got home and I said to mum, I said, I literally can't find Ricardo in any of my social media contacts. Like he even had a name. I was like, where on earth is he? Like, what was his surname? And my mum was like, I'm so sorry to break the news, but no one came to visit you. I was so disappointed. But um, but yeah, so obviously, I I don't really know when the delirium happened, where, because I was in two different hospitals. I had to be transferred to another one, um, because my condition was quite bad. Um, but yeah, I my parents had to fly out, um, to come and see me because obviously it was, it was, um, quite a difficult situation. And unfortunately, they got themselves stuck into a bit of a a situation too. They, I'm not sure if you heard about the Genoa Bridge collapse, but um, a big bridge in Italy collapsed and killed 43 people. My parents drove over that bridge two hours before it went. So they flew into Genoa and got a higher car down to the first hospital. And the thing is, they had told me of their ordeal whilst I was on the ventilator. So I must have been still very delirious. And so I did, I had this, one of my deliriums was not only the plane crash, but also, um, I was in this car wreckage and the driver hadn't made it and I'd somehow survived. And it was so confusing because I genuinely, when I came round and I was able to speak, I said to mum, I said, why am I in hospital? Like, what's happened to me? I had no clue. I mean, I thought I was in a skiing accident, a car crash, a plane crash, all sorts. Um, but anyway, so I then had to obviously go back to med school. And actually one of, like I said, I just wanted to go back. And I can just remember sitting at home, just twiddling my thumbs almost and seeing the news and it was just all negative stuff. And actually, I saw, I saw a clip on the news of these, these cars dangling off a bridge. And I just, I couldn't do it. I literally just had to go back and and focus on something. Um, but then my mum had to stay with me for a few months because I was so, I couldn't even do my shoelaces. I literally could not do anything, but I wanted to learn. And I was so excited because obviously being on placement is the most exciting thing when you are a medical student. Um, and I can remember my mum had to drive me, uh, to my first day of placement. And in a way, it was quite embarrassing because I'm thinking, oh, you know, I'm a 20-something year old and I've still got my mum driving me back and forth. And my mum has always been the person who said, are you sure you can do this? You know, she she really supports what I'm doing, but in the back of her mind, she's also got her worries, naturally. She doesn't want me to be let down. Um, but yeah, so I she dropped me off and I I went into placement. And this is when the discrimination began. So I essentially had a doctor come up to me and say, imagine you're a patient, would you want a disabled doctor treating you? Absolutely not. And I was sent home. And I was walking out...

Dr Rupy: First day of placement.

Alexandra Adams: Yeah. As I was, because I didn't know what to do because I thought if I, if I stayed and went against this doctor's advice, I would be seen as unprofessional. But if I left placement early because of what this doctor had said, I would also be seen as as unprofessional. So I was literally, I just didn't know what to do. Um, and anyway, so I was I was walking out of the ward and another doctor came up to me and said, what are you doing with the patient's cane? So they had already assumed that because I had a white cane with me that I was a patient. And I just said, look, I'm really sorry, but the cane's actually my cane because I'm registered blind. And he looked at me in this like look of horror, which he probably think that I I couldn't see, but I could tell. And he just said, I don't want you touching any of the patients. And so at that point, I just said, right, no, I'm going to go home. Um, and I was on sort of a phase return anyway because of my recent ordeal in Italy. And my mum came to pick me up and I can remember being in the car and for the first time ever, I was the one to say to mum, I don't think I can do this anymore. I don't think medicine's for me, just based on what these doctors had said to me on my first day.

Dr Rupy: How did you get out of that? Because like, you know, your mum's being cautious, you've now like flipped into that. And I'm assuming like, you know, you probably shook yourself up in your Alexandra fashion that appears to permeate whatever situation you're in, whether you're lost in the middle of a jungle, whether you're undergoing delirium, you know, just but that must have been a very, very low point.

Alexandra Adams: It was. Yeah. And I think that was probably the first because I somehow have this knack of being able to climb out of these holes. And I mean, I always do in the end. But having a...

Dr Rupy: Metaphorically and physically.

Alexandra Adams: I don't think I've fallen down any holes yet. I just have to think about that one. Um, just sort of like finding a solution to anything that I'm thrown into. But honestly, I I came home from that day and thinking, okay, so how am I going to deal with this? Because at the end of the day, I'm going to be on this placement in this block for another eight weeks. Like, what am I going to do? Am I going to have to just put up with people just being really ignorant? Or am I going to have to put my foot down and say, look, this needs to stop. Um, and I did. I went to the medical school and I said, look, this has happened. But instead of supporting me, they just said to me, it's not discrimination. It's the way you're perceiving things. It's your behaviour. And I think that made me more angry. Oh my goodness. What what do you want, what else do you want me to say? Um, so in the end, I just kind of had to just keep my head down and you've you've almost got to play the game.

Dr Rupy: You're victim blaming that. It's just pure like everything is on you, the person. It's not the system, it's not someone's negative comments, it's you, it's you are the issue. That I mean...

Alexandra Adams: And when you feel like that, you're walking around every day and you feel like you're the problem. It's horrible. It's a horrible thing to hang over you. But I like to turn or try to turn everything into a positive. And that's when Faces of the NHS was born. So you may have heard of it and I'd love to get you involved as well.

Dr Rupy: I love this beautiful segue. It's beautiful. I really want to get into this. Yeah.

Alexandra Adams: Um, but yeah, so it's essentially, it's a campaign that I started in, so I officially began it in January 2019. It's a portrait photography campaign where I'm going around the UK and taking photos of anyone who works for the NHS, past, present, future. And they obviously share their story, a little snippet behind what they're doing, why they're doing it. Um, and it's with a hope that it can break down stereotypes of what it means to look like a doctor, look like a nurse, look like a porter, and instead celebrate diversity. And I'm hoping that as this montage gets bigger and bigger and bigger, we can start to change, we can we can we can make a cultural shift and just make the workplace more inclusive, not just in the NHS, but in general. And I think by using it as a photography project, it can be, it's visual, it's very easily accessible for anybody. Um, and for those who can't see, then you have the stories of those people who are, you know, part of the campaign. And and it's really, it's really quite overwhelming because I've already taken photos of 500 people.

Dr Rupy: 500 people.

Alexandra Adams: 500 people. Yeah. I mean, people including, you know, Adam Kay and and so many, um, Dr. Amir Khan from, um, GPs behind closed doors. So I've got I've got amazing like so many guys on board. And I genuinely didn't think that it was going to be that like sort of successful. And obviously then I started talking about that in my Ted talk back in October. So it's really lifted off the ground. It's fantastic. But it's like, wow, I just I just didn't expect it. So I use that now as my motivation to think, hang on a minute, you know, you should be proud to be different and actually the people who give you negative comments, they're they're not being horrible. I don't think most of the time, they just don't understand and it's about educating, it's about educating everyone.

Dr Rupy: Absolutely. I think innately humans are, um, that they're they're positive, they are, um, moral. We do have an ethical backbone, but unfortunately, through the environment and the stigmatization of our roles, you know, we we act in awful, awful ways. And I'm I'm so embarrassed to hear about your experiences within the profession that is meant to be the most caring, the most empathic. Um, but hopefully you sharing your story and your project as well will, you know, allow us to question ourselves. I mean, I'm questioning myself even this, like would I have thought the same way had I not met you? Had I not understood your story? Would I make the same judgments? And if I'm being really authentic and honest with myself, I may have. I probably wouldn't have said those disgusting things and I certainly wouldn't have said that, but maybe to myself, would I have thought, how is this person going to be a medic? But you are proving that small little voice in my head wrong. And everything you do, you're just such a rock star, Alexandra. Honestly, you're a genuine rock star and like I can't wait to watch your, you know, you said, uh, after you were on, uh, Lorraine and Jeremy Vine and, uh, the Sunday Times and a whole bunch of others, you were like just getting called whilst you're on placement. And I mean, on the ward round, I was like, please be quiet. I'm trying to talk to patients.

Alexandra Adams: But I just see your trajectory being huge within clinical medicine and outside of clinical medicine on a grander scale. And honestly, if you choose, and it will be your choice to leave medicine, if you're ever going to do that, you could be a comedian, an author, a photographer. There's so many things you could do, honestly.

Dr Rupy: I like that. I like that kind of like, you know, wealth of choice, but I will always do medicine. I mean, the the thing that motivated me to do it in the first place was my experiences as a patient, but more so because I just I just love people. I am fascinated by people and I just I just love that emotional connection between human beings. Um, where that will take me, I really don't know, but it's it's exciting nonetheless. Um, I'll probably be gallivanting around the world in between as well. So, uh, so yeah.

Alexandra Adams: Great. I've got one more last thing to give you. It's your birthday today. So I've got you two little things. It's a banana bread.

Dr Rupy: Oh my goodness.

Alexandra Adams: And a brownie as well.

Dr Rupy: Oh, Rupy, thank you so much.

Alexandra Adams: I know it'll probably take you like three hours to eat this, so you can I'll pack you a doggy bag. You can share it with your mum later. But um, I just, yeah, I just wanted to thank you personally whilst on the podcast here because I usually do an outro and everything. But for sharing your story, for being the person you are and uh, being just a, like I said, an absolute rock star. You really inspire me. You you you like I'm just thinking of all the different things and the the number of times I beat myself up and, you know, uh, you just have that little voice in your head that says you can't do things. You are proving everything wrong about that and I just admire you for your work and I just can't wait to to watch and support your journey going forward.

Dr Rupy: Thank you so much. And and like I said to Tim, you know, you can be anything you want to be. You can do anything you want to do. Do not let anybody say otherwise. And actually, I've learned along the way, don't always take no for an answer because if I took that from day one, I would not be where I am today.

Dr Rupy: Wow, just wow. I'm not even going to try and attempt to sum up my conversation here. It just went through so many different emotions and um, all I want you to do really is follow my guest on social media. You can find her on Instagram at Alexandra Elaine Adams and at Faces of the NHS. Um, all the links are going to be on the doctorskitchen.com. Please check out her Ted talk. Again, the links for that are going to be on the website. Give this a five star review if it helped you or if it inspired you in any way. I read all the comments. I really, really do appreciate the love and the support and the share and sharing. Um, and send it to someone who needs a little bit of inspiration, a little bit of hope, um, a little bit of a feel good moment. I really, I think this this podcast is morphing into not only discussions about nutrition and uh, lifestyle changes and and the science behind it, but also, you know, reminders, uh, to ourselves about being grateful for everything that we have in our in our lives. Um, and that's all I'm going to say. Um, have a fantastic day. I hope you found this as inspiring, uh, as I did, as it as it was to meet Alexandra and I hope that won't be the last time at all. Um, and uh, yeah, uh, share it and uh, I will catch you on the podcast next time. So have a great day.