Dr Rupy: Karen, what are we making here? We've got a brown bread recipe situation.
Karen: Yes. So we wanted to show you guys how to elevate a very simple brown bread recipe into something that's super digestible, into something that unlocks the phosphorus inherent in the ingredients we're using, into something that's usable for your metabolism. And we want you to be able to absorb the iron and the magnesium and the calcium in the flours that you guys are using at home.
Dr Rupy: What's wrong with the regular brown bread? If I go to a supermarket and I see brown bread, I'm like, that looks healthy, it's got farm on the front. What's wrong with that bread versus, what's the difference between that bread and and this bread?
Karen: And this bread. Um, so I mean, it probably, that bread probably hasn't gone through a process to make it digestible. And it's as simple as that. In all grains, nuts and seeds, you've got these anti-nutrients, these enzyme inhibitors that are known as oxalates or phytic acid or tannins. But particularly in flour, you've got a lot of phytic acid. And phytic acid is locked up with these nutrients that are so potent for your health. And if that ingredient doesn't go through a process to make it digestible, then you're not going to uptake the nutrients that otherwise would be bioavailable in in those flours and ingredients.
Dr Rupy: Okay, so these nutrients are sort of like locked in this safe and without actually unlocking that safe and allowing you to get the treasure inside, you're basically just not absorbing anything.
Karen: Right. You're just absorbing calories, really. Um, and you're not taking in phosphorus, which first and foremost is really necessary for a healthy metabolism. And so on our school days, we meet loads of people that come with like slow digestion, you know, they describe their digestion as being sluggish. And when I go through what they're eating and the breads that they're eating, they're eating actually an awful lot of phytic acid. And so they've they've got the conduit through which they could have a good metabolism, but they're just not putting that through a soak.
Dr Rupy: Okay.
Karen: So as soon as they start making bread in this way, they're like, oh my god, Karen, my health has totally changed. Like I'm going to the loo every day, my energy levels are better, I don't have anxiety. It's just chemical reactions in the body are hugely dependent on enzymes. So we need enzymes to stimulate necessary chemical reactions in the body that are warranted for health, for every organ's health. So if we ingest something that has an enzyme inhibitor in it, of course we are not going to feel well. It is just as basic and as simple as that. And so what we're doing here is we're emulating what happens in nature. So in nature, at springtime, with the rainfall, you get this acidic soil, and that acidity says to the ingredient, hey guys, let's germinate now. And so the enzyme inhibitor, aka the anti-nutrient, aka the phytic acid, that is transformed in this acidic solution into phosphorus and it unbinds from things like magnesium, iron and calcium, and it allows all the proteins to become digestible as well. So this thing is germinating into like a big flower that then can thrive. And so essentially what we're doing here in your home kitchen is where we're bringing spring rain to your kitchen, we're bringing like an acidic soil to your kitchen, and we're just emulating what happens in nature so that you ingest something that is going to nourish you. If you ingest any of these ingredients without soaking very simply or fermentation, you will not be nourished, simple as that.
Dr Rupy: Okay, so it's not that bread is the issue, there's a lot of bread bashing out there. It's the fact that that bread hasn't been through a proper process to make the nutrients inside of that good quality flour, whole flour, digestible for the person consuming it.
Karen: That's exactly it. Exactly it. So this whole process that we're going to go through today is what I see as a very simple bread recipe, something that I could do because I'm not a baker. But just some some tweaks to the process to make you absorb the the nutrient dense ingredients that we have locked in inside.
Karen: Right. Right. So on a basic on a very basic level at home, you're going to be adding maybe flour with buttermilk and an egg. And then to give that bread rise, you're going to either use a sourdough starter or bicarb. Sourdough starter sounds convoluted and complicated, but it really isn't, and we'll talk about that later. But on a very basic level, you'll be able to go to any food website and get a brown bread recipe that will call for buttermilk and bicarb. What we want to do is use the buttermilk as your culture. So you're going to do the exact same thing you always do, you're going to prepare your loaf of bread as normal, but instead of baking it straight away, because you can do so with bicarb and give it rise, you're just going to let that dough sit overnight and then you're going to bake it the next day. What happens is the lactic acid in the buttermilk is going to ferment. So number one, it's going to soak in the buttermilk, but then number two, there's going to be an extra phase which is known as fermentation, and that lactic fermentation is going to increase the bioavailability of the proteins and in some cases the nutrients like your B vitamins, your magnesium and your iron to what effect we don't know, but we can say categorically that it will increase the bioavailability of certain nutrients. And so in a time when more and more people are going, you know, vegetarian, a recipe like this is really helpful in ensuring that you have proteins that are like absorbable in your body and things like iron, calcium and magnesium.
Dr Rupy: Fab.
Karen: Um, so what we're going to do is, um, I don't want you, I could talk to you at length about heritage farming and organic farming and all that kind of stuff, but I'm going to lose your attention and I don't want to do that. I want you to be able to walk into any supermarket across the world and buy these flours and make them more digestible. So step one is, you don't need to go anywhere, maybe you need to get some buttermilk, maybe you need to convert milk into buttermilk, something like that. But step one really is just take what's in your cupboard and make it more digestible. So that's what we're doing today. So in most places around the world, it's really easy to get wholemeal flour. So we're just going to use 200 grams of wholemeal flour. Now, it can come from anywhere. It can it can it can be a heritage variety, it can just be as basic as something from any supermarket across the country. Um, but we're going to use 200 grams of that. And then to that wholemeal flour, we're using 200 grams of spelt. Um, so spelt again, it's wildly available now, which is amazing. Um, however, you could just use wholemeal flour. If spelt is too far a reach, if your local supermarket doesn't hold it, don't use it. It's fine. Don't stress. What we're teaching you here today is how to unlock the nourishment in this flour.
Dr Rupy: What's the difference, forgive my ignorance here, what's the difference between a spelt flour and a wholemeal flour?
Karen: So it the spelt will be wholemeal spelt. So spelt is the is the grass variety. Um and then the wholemeal wheat, they're just two different grasses. So essentially what we have here is we've just got double the diversity we would if we were just to use one flour.
Dr Rupy: And if we're looking for the best quality flour, let's say we have all the time in the world and we want to go to different supermarkets or or grocers, what criteria are we looking for for the best spelt and the best wholemeal flour?
Karen: Great question. So you provenance is is key. So the terroir in which it's grown is really, really, really key. So on packaging, if it says grown in Britain, if it says stone ground, that is something that you know is going to be high in enzyme activity because the the stone grinding process doesn't reach the high temperatures of roller mills. Um and so the enzyme activity is protected. Um, the other thing you might hear about if you're a real geeky is you will hear about extraction levels. So there is a various kind of percentages in terms of extraction. So some people when they grind down a brown flour, they'll be at 98% extraction. Others might be down to 92% extraction. The extraction number indicates how much bran is in the flour. So if you're at 100% extraction, the whole wheat kernel is in that flour. But if you're like at 92% extraction, you've maybe left out a bit of the bran. And so that's why in these very basic recipes, you can then add bran into the recipe to make sure that you're getting that potent fibre in that you need for your colon health.
Dr Rupy: Gotcha. So that's stone ground, the provenance, extraction. Do some of these, I know in other ingredients, companies can get away with saying certain words because they're not protected terms. Is that something that's similar with flowers?
Karen: Yeah, I mean, I think we're going to see a lot of growth in that area. It's it's a really good thing to highlight. Like there is talk in the bread industry around like what does heritage mean? Like what is what is classified as a heritage seed? And so that isn't classified yet. It's not protected. There is no protection for grains in Britain right now. Um, you know, you can grow whatever grain you want off a certain list of ingredients pretty much anywhere you want. Um, but I'm sure and I hope that through, you know, people's want for more food security in this country that yeah, we start protecting.
Dr Rupy: Okay. And if I'm really geeking out, extraction level, that's really, I that's completely new to me. We're going to add more fibre through the bran.
Karen: Exactly, because to your point, like on on packaging, um, if you go somewhere like E5 Bakehouse and to their milling department, on all of the outside of all of their bags, they will give you the percentage of extraction because they know what that means and they know it's really important. But just to your regular consumer of bread, they don't know that 100% extraction means all the bran is in the flour. So there's a huge disparity between wholemeal flour. Like you could be buying wholemeal flour that's got 67% extraction all the way up to 98% extraction. They don't need to put that on the label. It can still be called a wholemeal flour because there is some amount of bran in it. And so when you don't really know what's in the bag of flour that you're buying, it is always much safer and more conducive for bowel health to add wheat bran into the recipe as well.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, there's a nice parallel with extra virgin olive oil. So for it to be labelled as healthy, it needs 250 milligrams of polyphenols per kilogram of product. And those who are in the business know that that means that's an important thing to put on the label. So if you look out for that, sometimes it's 300, sometimes it's 400, depending on the actual process, the brand. Um so again, it's probably one of those other things that people who are in the know will look out for. And the same thing now, people will know, okay, look for extraction.
Karen: Yeah, I need I need I need more fibre in. So, um, because we want, uh, we want to give you good bowel movement from the bread that you're eating. Detoxification is really incredibly important for the body and that happens through having high fibre diet. But we also are aware that some people need a bit more soluble fibre in their diet. Therefore, we're using oats, which is an ingredient that's much higher in soluble fibre than insoluble fibre. So we're using oats in this recipe today. Most brown bread recipes will call for oats anyway. And oats are incredible at keeping you fuller for longer. So we've got 50 grams of wheat bran in here and we've got 25 grams of oats. You can change that ratio dependent on what you need. If you're someone who suffers with really bad constipation, you can leave the oats out and just use the wheat bran. But if you're someone who has maybe too frequent a bowel movement, um then you could just use all oats instead of wheat bran. So you can swap it up dependent on what your condition is.
Dr Rupy: And we were looking at the package of this wheat bran and this is bloody high in fibre.
Karen: Really high. So we've got 45 grams of fibre per 100 grams here. Um and the protein content was up at around 20 something. So that's a nice ratio of fibre to protein. So you've got your prebiotic fibre, which is going to stimulate enzyme activity in the gut. And then you've got these proteins which we're going to make more digestible, then available to you to create branch chain fatty acids, to keep inflammation down and and do other really cool things around the body. Um, but really this is this is a very simple recipe which has been created in ratios that work for your gut health, no matter where you are in your kind of well-being journey.
Dr Rupy: And you were telling me earlier about this ratio being very important. It's something that we've lost through manufacturing processes. Remind me again what the ratio of fibre and protein should be and why we should be cognizant of that.
Karen: So, um, we need to eat 66 parts dietary fibre to every 33 parts dietary protein. So our gut bacteria's food of choice is this exact ratio. And when you start eating in this ratio, you really reap the benefits very, very quickly because you're essentially just feeding your gut bacteria exactly what they want. And this is how I create recipes and this is why our recipes are so effective so quickly for people versus maybe, you know, you engage eating sourdough, but engaging eating sourdough, that that might have a long-term effect on bowel health, but it won't be as quick as when you actually do the ratio that works. So 66 parts to 33 parts. Before the industrial revolution and before World War II, all of the pulses and grasses that we were growing across Britain had this kind of ratio inherent in their chemistry. Um, because we were farming for quality over yield. But kind of from the 1940s onwards, we started farming for yield at all costs because obviously during the war, people were starving and we needed access to food quickly and each acre needed to be yielding a huge amount per per season. Um and so we kind of lost this this chemistry that is actually conducive to lifelong health. Um so when it comes to all ingredients, um pulses, nuts, grains, um there's a huge disparity between an heirloom variety and a modern cultivar of that food. So a modern cultivar will inevitably have like a huge inside to little surface area, whereas heirloom will have much more surface area to the middle. So on the outside is where you find all these um prebiotic fibres, uh these proteins, these irons, magnesiums, calciums. Um and then in the inside you've got like a lot of the energy and a lot of the soluble fibre. Um and so just as a very basic rule of thumb, trying to buy local heirloom varieties of things will mean that you are more than likely eating in this ratio, which is 66 parts fibre to 33 parts protein.
Dr Rupy: Fab. Okay, so we've got our oats, our wheat bran, we've got spelt, wholemeal flour. What else goes in this?
Karen: And now we're just going to, we're just going to stir the dry blend.
Dr Rupy: Should I just use a spoon?
Karen: Yeah, exactly. Okay, great. I'll use this. Um so you're just stirring this really, really quickly, guys. Like this takes you four minutes to make at home. Um and then once all of your dry ingredients are fully blended, you're just going to crack an egg into this mixture and you're going to mix the egg through the flour blend really, really quickly and then we're going to add our buttermilk.
Dr Rupy: So this, so I'm just literally going to crack it in.
Karen: Literally just crack it in and then stir it through. Um and that's just going to help bind things together. Um and then the buttermilk.
Dr Rupy: Okay, fine. So stir this through.
Karen: Right. And it doesn't need to go all the way through because it's it's Yeah, it's just one egg.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, it's just one egg. I was going to say, if it has to go through everything, I'm going to be here for a little while. Okay, so just now the buttermilk.
Karen: Yeah, just add the buttermilk. So like this is super, super basic. You you don't want to make this bread in a bread mixer. Um when you're using wholemeal flour, the gluten is less. And so if you were to overwork this dough, it would kind of become a sloppy mess and you wouldn't have bread with structure.
Dr Rupy: Okay.
Karen: Um so you can just all of it, all in one go. Like this is just super basic, guys. And literally you're just going to stir all this together and you're going to leave it sit overnight and then tomorrow you're going to bake it.
Dr Rupy: So how much was that? 500 mils?
Karen: So, um, this is this is the little pivot for you guys at home. So, um, let's say you're using a recipe currently that calls for 500 mils of milk. When you convert that recipe into a soaked recipe, you want to increase hydration by 20%. And so that's just a basic rule that I have come up with that I have tested time and time again. So you can convert any recipe on the internet or in recipe books that you use at home into something digestible by increasing the hydration by 20%.
Dr Rupy: 20%. Okay.
Karen: So, um, in this like basic recipe that I found off the internet, they were using 500 mils of buttermilk. So instead of 500 mils, we use 600 mils. And that's it. So you're doing the same thing, you're using the same ingredients, you're you're you're doing the same process here, you're just increasing hydration by 20%.
Dr Rupy: And just for folks at home who are just, I just want to clarify this point, the extra hydration...
Karen: Is needed because you are unlocking the enzymes. And enzymes thrive on hydration. So, um, because the recipe that you will be using isn't cognizant of that or it's not taking that into the chemistry of the bake, uh, we then need to teach you how to do that. So we're adding that hydration number one to create enzyme activity, but number two, we are using a huge amount of fibre and fibre needs more hydration. And so the fibre is going to soak up all that hydration overnight and really plump out. Um, if you were to bake this straight away, the fibre would have no opportunity to soak up the hydration. It's just getting baked off straight away.
Dr Rupy: Okay.
Karen: And so that's perfect. Like literally that's it.
Dr Rupy: This is so easy. My hands are clean.
Karen: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is awesome. Okay.
Karen: And so that's literally it. And now all you do is you leave that at room temperature overnight, covered with a tea towel. So something like this. Exactly that. And room temperature, guys, is really, really important because we're emulating nature. So we're not going to use a fridge. We're just going to let it overnight. Obviously, if your kitchen is incredibly warm, or if your kitchen fluctuates in temperature quite regularly, then you absolutely can use the fridge. In that instance, you would let it out at room temperature for four hours and then get it into the fridge, and then the next day, get it out of the fridge, and then we're going to add your bicarb. So, um, for those of you who do have a sourdough starter at home and want to elevate this some more, you can add your sourdough starter to that recipe.
Dr Rupy: Oh, okay. So I can bring this back into play here. So I've got this this mixture here.
Karen: So you've got this mixture. And now we've got buttermilk here. So buttermilk has a lactic acid ferment and a sourdough starter has a lactic acid ferment. Um, the...
Dr Rupy: Can I go back actually real quick to the buttermilk because I don't think I clarified because I don't think buttermilk is particularly common in all supermarkets. So maybe we could talk about what buttermilk is and if you've only got milk, how do you create buttermilk from that?
Karen: Yeah, perfect. So, um, basically buttermilk is like acidifying milk. So you just want to um kind of whisk in lemon juice with regular milk, whatever milk you can find. Um and then let that sit kind of overnight ideally.
Dr Rupy: Outside?
Karen: Yeah, ideally. Ideally. But again, I guess I I don't want to advise too much here just because I'm conscious that people have a whole range of allergies and stuff like that. So, you know, if if you think and you don't trust your room temperatures at home, of course use the fridge. Um but I am, you know, like mad into fermentation. So like I want to culture at like temperatures that will really...
Dr Rupy: You know your room temperatures. And it's very steady.
Karen: So that the acidity in our buttermilk um is kind of like, you know, what's happening when spring rainfall falls on soil, you know, and creates that acidic condition that then allows something to germinate. So essentially, the buttermilk is spring soil. And it is germinating the ingredients now. And the lactic acid bacteria is unbinding the enzyme inhibitor phytic acid from the magnesium, calcium and iron, um and then is making the proteins more digestible over time. So the only marked difference between a soak and a ferment is that a soak makes everything digestible, but a ferment transforms and elevates the nutritional content that's inherent in the ingredients by something up to 30%.
Dr Rupy: That's a really good distinction there. I just want to clarify that. So soaking makes, unlocks everything. What does fermenting do?
Karen: And then fermenting elevates the nourishment.
Dr Rupy: Okay.
Karen: Yeah. So you you know, and and I suppose that's why it's so important that we teach you guys basic fermentation because you guys could use water in this recipe, which would make it digestible, but if you use buttermilk, you're making something even more nourishing. And it's just as basic and as easy as that. So the soaking would simply make it digestible. The fermentation through lactic acid bacteria elevates the inherent B vitamins, magnesium, protein and prebiotic fibre by about 30%.
Dr Rupy: Brilliant. Okay. And so if let's say you're you're vegan or you don't want to use the buttermilk, you can use your starter.
Karen: Exactly that would be exactly that. Exactly that. And like, you know, any most bakeries around the world will give, we give people starter for free every day from my bakery. So, you know, go into a bakery, get some starter and then just start feeding it. You don't need to be a sourdough baker, you don't need to be stretching and folding, you don't need to be making these kind of, you know, big boles of sourdough. You just need this through which very, very potently digestible nourishing bread is going to happen.
Dr Rupy: Fab. And like Rupy said, you don't get your hands dirty. Like it's...
Karen: Yeah, yeah, because I I'm really intimidated by, I've done sourdough baking myself and it's great, but it's not something that I feel with my busy lifestyle, I have the ability to do every single week, but I still would love to create this.
Dr Rupy: And also like the flavour that you get from lactic acid fermentation is amazing. Whether it be a buttermilk or something like this or, you know, and and the other thing you could do for those of you who are vegan, you could just use apple cider vinegar. So you don't need to use this, obviously you're not using the buttermilk, you can just use 10 grams of apple cider vinegar in your recipe and that's going to ferment the ingredients versus just simply soak them.
Karen: Could you use a flax egg instead of the egg that we used here? Would that work?
Dr Rupy: Absolutely.
Karen: Okay.
Dr Rupy: Absolutely. Fine. And so a flax a flax egg, that would just be uh well like a tablespoon of...
Karen: So one part flax to three parts water.
Dr Rupy: Brilliant. Okay, fab. All right, so I can now put this...
Karen: So now you can just let that to the side and cover it with a tea towel. And then tomorrow, guys, we will add eight grams of bicarb to that, just simply stir it through, and then we'll get it into our tin to bake. But we can go through that with you guys later again.
Dr Rupy: Okay. Oh, we've forgotten an ingredient. Sorry. Yeah. Oh, we've forgotten the treacle. Okay. I'm going to bring this back in. Uh, and so the treacle is that like feeding the...
Karen: Amazing. So treacle is like this incredibly like potent ingredient. It's high in iron, it's high in B vitamins. Um it was a big part of Irish bread making back in the day for its nutrient content. Um and so in general, you want to add like a good tablespoon or two tablespoons. Um and this again, it helps the ferment, it creates beautiful flavour in the bake, really, really exceptional. Um and again, there there's a wide variety of treacle out there. Um we use apple cider vinegar treacle that we get from a place in Kilkenny called Highbank Orchard in Ireland. Um but, you know, this this this molasses is pretty much accessible in all corner stores now.
Dr Rupy: Beautiful.
Karen: Um and it it it's just it brings so much wild flavour and some beautiful wild yeasts as well.
Dr Rupy: And some colour as well. Like it's completely transformed to...
Karen: Yeah, stunning.
Dr Rupy: Oh, that's amazing.
Karen: And I mean, you can, you can guys, you can, you can use a sourdough starter and buttermilk and what you're going to do there is you're just going to bring more diversity to your gut because you're going to have loads of strains of bacteria. So the more strains of bacteria, the more fertilization of good bacteria is going to happen in your in your gut. Um so go wild, mix mix all the cultures you have.
Dr Rupy: Beautiful. Okay.
Karen: So it's the next day. And uh we're adding eight grams of bicarb, which is pretty much two teaspoons.
Dr Rupy: Oh yeah, nice.
Karen: Um so if you go a gram up, don't worry about it. And then all we're doing is stirring this together.
Dr Rupy: Okay.
Karen: So where's our wooden spoon again? Or we'll go in here. I've got this silicone spoon if you want or do you want the...
Dr Rupy: Yeah, whichever one you think you've got more control with. Maybe the wooden spoon.
Karen: Okay, I'll go for that. Um so you're just going to stir the bicarb in, guys. Um and you do want to make sure that the bicarb is blended through the whole mixture. Um otherwise the rise won't be as even. Um and also there's nothing worse than biting into like a piece of bicarb.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, yeah. And that bicarb, what what's the purpose of...
Karen: So the bicarb is your raising agent. So when you're not using a sourdough starter, which is fed from flour and water, um you're just not going to get a rise. So this is our raising agent. Um and you know, agents like this in these small quantities are not going to have any type of adverse effect on your digestive health. Um and this really, guys, this is a super, super basic recipe to introduce your body to the benefits of preparing food overnight. Um yeah, so that's ready to go into our tin now. And we can use the silicone spoon to wipe off anything else. And so guys, if your if your loaf tin um isn't very grease proof, it is a good idea to brush the tin with a little bit of olive oil or butter before putting the paper on. Um but the paper should be enough. And it just keeps things nice and tidy as well.
Dr Rupy: Yeah. Yeah. So you've seen you've just done one lengthways and then one a couple across.
Karen: That's it. Exactly. Yeah. And you want to make sure that the paper is corner to corner. Um otherwise it will get stuck. So do spend time lining your tins properly. Um otherwise you're going to be very upset when your bread doesn't have crust on all sides.
Dr Rupy: And then because this mixture is so wet, guys, you're not, you don't need to put a cross on it or anything like that or, you know, sometimes when people make brown soda bread, you see crosses.
Karen: Yeah, what's the whole cross...
Dr Rupy: It's just to to allow uh the bread to spring. Because in that instance, the bread isn't very hydrated. You know, it's much drier. And so when a bread is dry, it's not going to spring. It can't stretch. So you can only stretch when you're hydrated.
Karen: Okay.
Dr Rupy: So this is, I mean, this is super hydrated. Like this recipe is pretty much 120% hydration. So again, if you're a bit of a sourdough geek, you'll know what that means. Um so the more hydrated a bread, the more digestible. And so often if you go to a sourdough bakery, they'll be like, oh, this sourdough is 100% hydration or 86% hydration. And in the same way that extraction tells you a story about the bread, so does its hydration percentage.
Karen: Okay. And can I tap this down to get into the crevices or do you...
Dr Rupy: You can. Absolutely. Yeah, you can.
Karen: Okay, right. I'll do that little tap tap. Okay. And so into preheated oven.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, your oven's at 190 degrees now.
Karen: 190 degrees.
Dr Rupy: And you're going to bake this for one hour at 190 degrees.
Karen: One hour, 190 degrees. And we're going to take it out and then we are going to bake it for another 10 minutes.
Dr Rupy: That's it. Great. And we have one that we've already got, which is over here. So we've got two loaves using two slightly different um methods that you described already.
Karen: Yeah, exactly. Um so if you were to use a sourdough starter in making this bread, you're going to have a bread that looks a little bit like this one that has the oat flakes on top. Um and then if you've made a bread with bicarb, you're going to have something that looks like this. So the bicarb is actually going to give you more spring than the sourdough starter is. Um and their texture is going to be wildly different um because of the the different strains of lactic acid bacteria in here.
Dr Rupy: Wow, these look beautiful. So we can just cut into the middle of both of these.
Karen: Do you want to do the honours?
Dr Rupy: Sure. I'd actually love to. So the first one we're doing is the one with bicarb. So this is, oh wow, look at that. So that's a nice and...
Karen: Beautiful.
Dr Rupy: Nice and wet, nice amount of treacle going through there as well.
Karen: Gosh. Isn't that amazing? The smell is wonderful.
Dr Rupy: The smell is incredible, isn't it?
Karen: Yeah.
Dr Rupy: And that looks like, you know, a a brown loaf that you could find in a supermarket, but this is infinitely more digestible, you've got a higher protein content, it's yeah, this is amazing. And that...
Karen: And look how wildly different they look. I mean, it's the exact same ingredients. The only difference being that in this one here on your left, this has a sourdough starter in it, um and this one doesn't.
Dr Rupy: Wow.
Karen: Yeah. And and flavour wise, they will be completely different.
Dr Rupy: Gosh, this is like um acidic, very acidic.
Karen: Yeah.
Dr Rupy: And this has got a nuttier, sort of more rounded flavour.
Karen: Yeah, and where the molasses comes through there.
Dr Rupy: Yes, this is like slightly sweet. So the one I'm smelling that's sweet, that's the one with bicarb. And then the the sort of fermented lactic acid, that's the sourdough and like, I mean, just look at the difference there. That's that's so stark with the exact same ingredients.
Karen: Isn't it?
Dr Rupy: Wonderful.
Karen: It's such a great showcase of what grain can be.
Dr Rupy: Yeah.
Karen: Like the exact same flours, the exact same level of hydration as well. And wildly different.
Dr Rupy: Yeah.
Karen: So when when I test these recipes on people back home in Ireland, everyone prefers the bicarb one.
Dr Rupy: Oh, really?
Karen: Yeah, everyone.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, because if I had to choose, I'd go for that one.
Karen: Yeah.
Dr Rupy: I don't know why. There's something appealing about that. Maybe it's that gorgeous crack in the top and like the fact that it's got this lovely dark crust on the, you know, that for me like screams wholesome. And yeah, I can't wait to taste that.
Karen: Yeah, yeah. I'm amazing. You're just going to have to take some starter home with you.
Dr Rupy: Yeah, I know I will. I will. Gosh, thank you so much. That was wonderful.
Karen: You're so welcome.
